Lao Tzu

Yes, me too. I can only united with Dao very occasionally. But keep trying, maybe we can do it even though we are so busy. The thing is many meditation can be harmful to one's health if one can not handle it proberly. It is not what I said, it is what the sages said. Yes, you can feel some magic feeling in your body when you meditate, but it means nothing in most of the time.

By myself. but, I have to read lots of books before I can do that. Native scholars, most of them are not believable.

I think you can get much more in the state I mentioned than meditation. I didn't intend to insult anyone, I just want to point out something wrong in the society. Real WuWei doesn't like that, it is so natural...

WuWei doesn't mean mindless doing something, it means doing anything without caring. So in such a state, everthing is OK, no desire, no worry, no pain, always happy. That is coming back to nature, be united with Dao.

Can you tell me which part I am misunderstanding?

Yes, I think I am sure. I did both of them. But now, I only try to did WuWei.

No...

I thought I know the definition of meditation. So I post this. But then, I found that most people think it it difficult to describe what meditation is, so I have to ask to discuss meditation based on fact.

So I said most of people do not understand Dao, misunderstanding WuWei. WuWei doesn't mean mindless doing something, it means doing anything without caring. So in such a state, everthing is OK, no desire, no worry, no pain, always happy. That is coming back to nature, be united with Dao. Is that a kind of solution?

The point is what the majority of guys here are doing when they are meditating. We should discuss based on this point. Does it make sence?

The key is what a real immortal looks like? Surely not like a person who can blow out a candle in a distance.

So I said that so many people misunderstood the Dao. The state of wu wei is definitely different to 'empty mind' meditation.

Yes, it is true. The majority of the religous people are misunderstanding their religions' spirits, from long time age to now and to the future.

I know what you are talking about. But it is not natural, because in order to do that,you must keep in a certain status with your mind and body, it is conflict with the spirit of the Dao. You are supposed to experience Dao all the time in all your activities.

Meditation is not the real Dao, because it is "doing something with your mind", and it is not natural. In other words, meditation is conflict with Dao.

That is not alternatives, because he said "NO" to others. Yes,while you are doing dishes, or maybe reading the daily paper, you can live in Dao. Living in Dao means every minute, every second.

I have post one here on #100: 金丹四百字（张紫阳）: 不可执以无为，不可行于有作，不可泥于存想，不可着于持守，不可枯坐灰心，不可盲修瞎炼。 Four hundred words about NeiDan(Zhang Ziyang): Can not run to inaction, is not feasible to have to make, not like mud in the deposit, not forward to hold on, not just sit and lose heart, not silly religious refining.

Sorry about that! I have translated some of them.

你瞧，连中国人对中文都会有不少误解，更别提外国人了。 所以，误解“道”的人占绝大多数。 Translate: You see, Ancient Chinese sentences can be misunderstood, even though you are a native speaker. So it is more likely to be misunderstood for foreigners. In fact, majority of the "taoists" are misundertanding the Way(Dao).

心沉寂如死的人当然谈不上有信心，但这毕竟是两个意思。 翻译当然力求翻意，字也是为了表达意嘛！

你翻译的灰心，是失去信心的意思。 原文的灰心，是心如死灰，沉寂如死的意思。 Translate: In your translation, "灰心" means discouraged. In fact, the "灰心" in the original sentence means a empty mind, silent like dead.

ChiDragon: 此灰心非彼灰心 Translate: This "灰心" is not that "灰心"

read the books, follow the ideas, and live in Dao Dao is simple.

No, the real Dao is only ONE !

I have good experience without any meditation.