Lao Tzu

What kind of books? written by the modern Qigong masters or the ancient sages? In my opinion, the working of Chi(Dao) in your body is too complicated to be performed under the help of the books or some teachers, unless he is an immortal. I can not say more about this, even though I want to. So believe me or not. That is it.

1. What is deep breathing? I don't know. Can you explain? 2. When one is meditating, he is manipulating the Chi inside his body, right? So how can he ensure the Chi go well if he doesn't exactly know the secret of the Dao in his body?

I prefer to state it as we are always getting off the right(natural) way of Dao, and stepping on a wrong way which leads to death.

If you think everything is not "against Dao", doesn't it mean that everything is right? If it doesn't mean that and there is something wrong, I think we can say "something is against Dao" I think "meditation is not a good way to practice", but I can not say that? I didn't say "every teacher in china is a cheater", I said the top Qigong masters are top cheaters. You don't know China well, it is true. Real Qigong teachers don't want money so eagerly, so they did less effort to advertise. But the Qigong cheaters do, so they always are "famous". And the cheaters like to use some fictional false Qigong theory to deceive the Qigong fans, and the "theory" is really "attactive".

Lao Tzu can not perform Taichi KongFu. In general opinion, Taichi Kongfu is invented by Zhangsanfeng.

"nothing is "in conflict with dao" everything arises from dao and returns to dao, and in between, is a manifestation of dao. To the sage who can reflect without grasping or rejecting, all is dao. So maybe it is your mind which creates the idea of "dao" and "not dao" and "conflict with dao" and "against dao". My mind doesn't do that, so i can't relate to what you are talking about. To me, everything is dao, even if i can't see that in the moment, that too is dao." In the text above, you said everything is Dao, so I think you mean "active meditation or a Qigong master is Dao as well, so I can not say it is wrong". right?

If it is true, you must had known it before you heard what I said.

have to leave, reply others later, sorry and thanks

Not exactly. Maybe sometimes, one wants to sit down and not think. But this is just natural happened, so it could be natural. But if you intend to do so for Dao, then the process is not natural. Criteria? I just use my logic thinking. If you disagree, we can discuss. Sages were normal people, but in some aspect, they are different from ordinary people. That is true. There are a lot of books that explain the entire process of attaining immortality. But for active meditation, it is not enough to practise just according the books. No. When I did meditation before, I didnt know it should be instructed by an immortal. So I just did on my own. Yes, the experience I had with active meditation was not genuine or credible. The experience west guys had with active meditation were not genuine or credible, either. Because it is not genuine, so I put a negative opinion on it, does it make sense? Yes, I am practicing. And I am doing it well. It has no intention when you really get into the process of practice. At the beginning for me, maybe a little bit, but for an immortal, there is no intention at all. Non-doing doesn’t mean really doing nothing. It means doing everything without desire and with an awareness of what the things truly are. If you can feel your body become stronger and healthier when you are meditating actively, congratulations, you can ignore what I said and keep going on. But I guess most of the cases are not like this. I surely understand what you are saying here. BUT, When I said THEREFORE it is not the true Tao, It equals I think it is not the true Tao When a person said something, something must come from the persons mind. But it is not necessary for him to say every sentences starting with a I think. SO, can I think it is not the true Tao and say that without I think? If both of these practitioners achieve similar results with their respective methods, THEN both of them are in accordance with the Tao. BUT, it is just IF. I doubt it. But, as I said above, if you can feel your body become stronger and healthier when you are meditating actively, congratulations, you can ignore what I said and keep going on. No, I havent. PS: It is an amazing type of discussion with you like this. I appreciate it.

I have to go to bed. Discuss later.

Everything is Dao, doesn't mean everything you did is right. You are confused here.

No, that is not what I mean. Sitting down and not thinking about anything, is not in accordance with the Tao, not because you are intending to sit and intending not to think. It is because the sitting and keeping a empty mind is not natural.

Because Dao is so complicated, only the immortals(sages) know exactly how to acheive it through active meditation. And in reality, to find a real immortal is almost impossible, so I said that. How long? I don't know, I think it depends how well you/I did. When I practice well, I can feel Chi in my body, and feel stronger and healthier. The active meditation, I did it before and not so much good feeling, further more, when I read the books and got the idea, put the idea into practice, I experienced the difference. So in theory and practice, I convinced myself that active meditation is not the true Dao and therefore it is not the best practice method.

I am not an immortal, there are something I do not know. But I think I know something about Dao. I don't think I am completely wrong. Because I got some ideas from the books, and justified it through my practice. When we say "Dao is everywhere", it means everything is a manifestation of Dao, and when we say "it is conflict with Dao", it means Dao has a natural way leading to live. If something is departing off the natural way, it will go to death. BUT, you can still regard this thing as a manifestation of the Dao.

I used this, right because it is a common ground. Dao is everywhere and every seconds, so such a practice that sometimes sitting somewhere to meditate is not a natural way of Dao.

But the point is that it is not natural, so basically it is not the best practice way, but you can try some at the beginning.

I think I am an extremely openminded person. You think me not only because I disagree someone's opinions? You know why I can tell it from reading books? Because by reading books, I can know what a sage looks like and what the Dao is like. So when a so-called master said something or did something which is conflict with Dao, I can draw a conclusion that he is not a good teacher.

I have brought two passages written by two sages TO support my opinion. One sage is zhangziyang, another is laozi. The passages are "Jindan 400 words" and "Qingjing Jing" And, I gave my logical analysis that Dao should be everywhere and every seconds. That is true Dao. Dao is beyond man's intelligence and conflict with intention, so acheiving Dao through "active mindful meditation" is almost impossible.

1. It is NOT the intention of the Dao, because Dao has no intention. 2. It is just an intention of a human being. 3. You are a manifestation of Dao; that is saying that your spirit and your body are born with Dao. But if you have an intention, the intention is beyond the natural way of Dao, it leads you to a path toward death. 4. The sages found that no intention is consistent with Dao.

In my opinion, there are two different practice methods for Dao. One is not a good choice in reality; anther is the best choice. In your opinion, you regard this two methods as two right ways for Dao. And you think mine is slower. That is our difference, right? I have given my grounds here. Maybe I can bring more in the future.

Your this text is still difficult for me to understand.

It is difficult for me to get your points when I read what you said.

Before you do anything for Dao, you must learn something, unless you are an immortal once you were born.