Wayfarer

To the OP: Daoism has lost its way in my view and is doing things backwards, and this is why it seems to be over-complicated, here are some examples: Cycling of the Waterwheel is a practice that breaks things down to very precise energetic positions e.g. draw energy up the spine to the Jade Pillow (back of head), take it through the brain, the Bright Hall, the Red Chamber, Earth Pot and so on to the Celestial Eye, breathe it along the Magpie Bridge (nose) and down blah blah blah until the spirit (dragon) and energy (tiger) copulate and form the Jade Child/ clean out the Lodging Place. All very nice. This is a little like describing how to drive a car to somebody with one key difference...you explain what the pedals do, the gear lever, the steering and so on however were it a completely natural process all that would be happening would be that an 'expert' would break down the systemic whole into specific parts, to explain what happens naturally. With the waterwheel practice, all that happens is when we become settled, when our energy relaxes and our thinking stops, there is as a natural consequence a settling feeling and a letting go, until one day, if you are lucky, you will notice a presence there (described in the TTC V16, which is also a verse about the Waterwheel. So, you can forget about Red Chambers and dragons, and just sit tranquilly allowing things to settle naturally. Zuowang sitting meditation: or sitting and forgetting. How can we ever forget that we are sitting if we are focussing on our breath, regulating its rhythm, concentrating on a particular spot, sitting on our favourite cushion until our feet get numb and then trying to forget. As Doyan said, when sitting why not meditate, when meditating why not sit? As above, allow tranquility into your day, let your energy and mind settle naturally, then it won't matter if you are sitting or standing, you will be meditating. Finally, all this talk of attaining the Tao and not being able to attain it! How confusing. Again we are talking about a natural process. A naturalness that is our Truth. How could the Truth, if it is relevant to all things be complicated? Of course it is simple. When we are ignorant of our Truth (as an experience) we 'do', we practise until we think we are getting closer to knowing and experiencing it but we are already IT, it is like trying to practise to be a man, when you are one already but don't realise it, it is simply a matter of waking up to that fact. To wake up to this fact, you need to bring stillness and calm into your day...again refer to V16 of the TTC or Be Still and Know that I am God...the Psalms. The more settled you are, the more likely you will notice the presence within and around you, and see its endless stillness. If you are filling your mind with Tigers, with sitting methods, with words how will you ever observe the endless calm within? If you want to practise Tao (not Taoism) watch nature, notice the quietness, the calm, the stillness that is present, this is the open door to Presence, but a tree is Presence, a bird, a car...it is everywhere you are looking. You see it already but don't recognise it. When tranquility is in your 'now' there is no practice. There is no sitting meditation, no waterwheel to cycle, no scripture to read...the only practice you need is to allow calmness into your now...then your energy settles naturally, your mind becomes less full, and ease enters your life as a flow. Beautiful and simple huh? Your intuition is right...let it be your teacher

The unknown/mystery is everything you are looking at, everything your senses feel. There is no approach to That which is everywhere Presence. You may refer to Xuan; the dark mystery referred to in V1 of the TTC. The TTC explains how to "approach" this in V16, through stillness. But Xuan is not something 'else' it is a way of describing something in plain view that is generally overlooked and therefore is likened to darkness and being a mystery. It is not a mystery though, and while it is dark, it is also everything that is bright. It cannot help the fact that is expresses itself as trees, sky, rivers, clouds, birds, people. The real mystery is why we think we are not Itself.

for anyone interested I have a YouTube channel where one of the recordings is Taoism: Silence https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHDGrYUjxtcEhgqVu8vJAdQ

Yes unfortunately what happened there with John Blofeld is that his sense of self (which was being blown away by the moment he describes) experienced fear and consequently, the nature of that experience was not complete and still attached to a sense of self. It is a little like the passage in the Bible (Exodus 33:20) that claims God said "you may not look directly at my face, for no one may see me and live" Is it that God's appearance is so terrible that if someone were to witness it they would die? No, it is that their sense of self dies in the realisation they are That which is One and No-Thing. Blofeld was close to that experience but fear got in the way.

Hi all, Just to let you know that if you are interested in Taoist and Zen poetry along with some rare scripture I have just completed a free ezine of classical and contemporary poetry, it is called Cloud Wanderer. Hope you like it if you take a look. Best wishes, Heath The following links are to my webpage with a brief description of the magazine or you can go directly to the magazine itself on the second link. http://www.taoistpoe...r-poetry-e-zine https://issuu.com/cl...spring_summer_/

Hi all, Just to let you know that if you are interested in Taoist and Zen poetry along with some rare scripture I have just completed a free ezine of classical and contemporary poetry, it is called Cloud Wanderer. Hope you like it if you take a look. Best wishes, Heath The following links are to my webpage with a brief description of the magazine or you can go directly to the magazine itself on the second link. http://www.taoistpoetry.com/cloud-wanderer-poetry-e-zine https://issuu.com/cloudwanderer/docs/cloud_wanderer_ezine_spring_summer_/

www.taoistpoetry.com

Hi Shanlung, God or Tao does not rely upon people to describe Him / It, the people you mention are God / Tao expressed as people. God cannot rely on anyone, for everyone is God itself. In this way we have no duality, 'we' only have One. Furthermore, God is not trying to get a message across, is not hidden anywhere hoping you will see - whatever you are looking at is the Face of God/ Tao. The fractal you see when you first open it is God appearing as a fractal, and the further in that you go and the deeper you go, all you are seeing is a different appearance of the same Face. It will not suddenly be revealed through a different picture because all pictures are IT. God needs nothing because God is already everything. It is an arrogance of man to think God needs something and a misunderstanding of man to think God hopes to communicate something. All this searching, is to look for something already in front of our eyes and behind them and all this trying is to overlook we are already That which we seek to be. We have simply grown to notice the different expressions as being different things, and have not realised all those manifestations are One Thing, just simply being and unfolding within itself - this is Life living AS you

To the OP, interesting name "Seeking Buddha" Everywhere is Buddha, what you are looking at is Buddha and you are also That. So really whether you go to an enlightened teacher or a fraud is equally problematic because in essence you are denying the Buddha that you already Are. Special powers has nothing to do with enlightenment or ignorance - to be Awake is to know nothing is more special than another thing - for it is realised that there is only One Thing and it cannot be both ignorant and awake - these terms do not apply to IT they are only our discriminating mind. So what to do if you believe you need a teacher? Turn to nature. Nature is a pure expression of Buddha-Self because it is not tied up with thoughts and belief about identity or need, it just simply is. Look in a mirror - you and IT are the same Buddha. Now, you have found Yourself - stop seeking One of my poems: Hearing about IT will never satisfy the need for the Silence of IT. Good luck. www.taoistpoetry.com

To the OP, Depends on what you mean by Buddhism and Taoism as they have both strayed pretty much from their early ways. Suffering does not mean that we feel bad about things, we could be happy with our new car and in a sense that is suffering - probably not a good word to choose for what is meant, which is, if you place your happiness in something, you will also feel sad when another situation does or does not work - this is because your True-Nature has not been realised (I don't mean you personally). Taoism also points to True-Nature. On a practical level - I ran a Buddhist group for around five years and a Taoist one for around two (until I moved abroad); I moved from the Buddhist one because it felt that my particular tradition (which was Zen) was becoming more like a therapy session - meetings would start like "so how are you today" and lots of people were attracted to it because they had problems and suffering - so I would call this Therapy Buddhism - which is helpful for people but is not to me about Buddha. I don't think Taoism will ever take off in the West other than through Qigong and Tai Chi practices - it has become the Health Therapy and less so the TTC or Chuang Tsu. The methods are an undoing an unmethod and are rather simple but effective...I found the people I taught in many cases didn't trust their simplicity and wanted something to 'do'. Depends whether you are a doer or not as to which you would like best.

To the Original Poster - actually you already have it. To Awaken and experience this bliss (which becomes a very settled undisturbed feeling that resides with you all the time) is to realise that all things are the same Thing and you are already That - which Lao Tsu named Tao. This One Thing is Unchanging (because there is nothing else that exists but it) and therefore always the same - and IT being all things, means you are also That - so something about you is totally unchanging - so where is it? Well you have a choice of two places to look; 1) you can look to your day-to-day conscious living with all its distractions for something unchanging or 2) you can look to how you are while unconscious. This state has no thought or emotion running through it and is not disturbed, it is unchanging. Its qualities must also reside in what 'we' consider to be everything else - for we/they are the same That - so consequently if we want to understand the Presence of Tao there must be something expressed in all things equally, something of its quality that also is within you while unconscious...the qualities that are present while unconscious must also be present while conscious. In other words, the One that does not change can only be As IT IS wherever you look, so if you look somewhere and see change in a sense you are overlooking the One. It is discovering this that creates the bliss. Verse 16 of TTC explains what to look for and how to find the Constant in case you don't wish to look yourself. So to find the Unchanging, do not look to what appears to change. When you Awaken you realise that nothing changes, what we see as altering is the changing face of the Changeless. This Presence lies within you (hence all the talk of Taoist Alchemy to become Immortal) and lies around you in the world you see. You are also what is beyond your body. Experiencing this as opposed to thinking it is what creates the state of bliss you mentioned. You can also ignore your thoughts and see them as something that comes and goes against the backdrop of something always present i.e. where did that thought come to and then leave - what is there, what is the you when there are no thoughts? Hope this helps.

There is no rebirth, so it doesn't matter whether we wonder if that would be as an animal or not - How do you reconcile Buddhist teachings such as no-birth, no-death...no-coming, no-going....no-self, non-duality, no cause and effect? If there is no birth and no cause and effect how can there be rebirth or karma? Buddha said that an awakened person steps off the wheel of cause and effect and ends their karma. Until that happens it is argued that karma and rebirth is a universal law - but it cannot be if in becoming Awake one ends that principle. It ends because in Awakening one realises there is no individual; there is only ONE. The ONE cannot change anything for there is nothing but itself, nor can it be changed for there is nothing to alter it - there is only Itself - you are THAT. You are that which cannot change, what you think of as 'you' is how IT appears in this moment - so if I smile and then frown they are different appearances of the same face but the face is the same. To be a Buddha is to realise there is no Buddha for there is no self. When this is known what can be affected? When this is known what can one be reborn as other than the ONE? So right now, you are already an animal, you are a cloud, a stone, a bird, a planet, space, nothingness, somethingness - you are THAT - the only Alone One. This ONE is expressing itself AS you; so being a human being in its natural simplicity is in a sense to be the purity of THAT...to seek to be one thing or another, or to worry about birth and death is still being THAT but not as its nature.

There is no difference between anybody as 'they' are one single thing - noticing this is Buddha however there is neither enlightenment nor delusion - there is no one who knows and no one who doesn't - they are One and the same nameless Thing. So a deluded person is Buddha, an awakened person is Buddha, a so-called partly awakened person is Buddha. Whether this is understood or not changes nothing - it does however appear that from the point of realisation, the knowledge of that can take time to unfold through the life of the 'individual' - so yes, two enlightened people may not appear to have the same level of peace - but ultimately everyone is the same Thing that knows nothing and is settled everywhere - for every 'where' is IT.

also I just want to ask one other thing - not of the person who said this especially as this seems to be said and thought of a lot - why do we need to follow a lineage to learn? Someone had to start it somewhere....and this began by observing nature...what was right before their eyes....this is all I chose to do; to not listen to others, to not read books, to not be told....but to see with my own eyes...and it is there, ever-present, everywhere. Ok, I'll be silent again now

Hi Beyonder, Yes, we are the whole, leaking wholeness into the whole - where it there difference?

The HHC is an example of how complicated we make something that is simple: it says about becoming one with the Tao and arriving at oneness, all you have to do is participate in it - what utter misunderstood complete shit! If it is oneness, and you must participate in it to arrive at it, then what are you, something that stands outside the oneness? So to become one with something through participation implies you are not already that one...this is buddhism through and through...never mistake this crap for a taoist scripture. You are the one. Whether you participate or not, or think you have not yet arrived..)Ou are already it...there is nothing to be done to make you more it. That is like a child saying what must I do to be a child. You are not 'you' you are the tao appearing as you. Those who realise this are buddha. Whoever wrote the hhc knew nothing of it. Look instead to the stillness of nature and the stillness within; it is the same...verse 16 of ttc says all anyone needs to know; the rest is superficial. Good luck!

To the OP For me, it is not really Taoism or Buddhism but Tao and Buddha - the 'ism' makes things unnatural and Buddhism in my experience is too much about doing, wanting to be compassionate or a better this or that. Tao is nature. It is the wildness of my natural self. Simple, vacant, gentle, at ease. Buddha is the natural state of realising the nature of what we are. All comes back to what is right before us. The 'isms' make life more complicated but fulfil our sense of need. When in truth, our need is to let go and be natural.

Hi Satsujin, A great question! Imagine your life like this; what you are is not a person, you are the Tao appearing as a person, when we think something like...oh life isn't going how I wish it was so hurry up - this is our ego-sense coming to mind and being frustrated...yet in a way, the Tao is attempting to be expressed through us, as us and everything around us, is also IT manifesting as 'things' but they are not things, they are a single nameless IT. This IT, is just doing nothing in particular, but how it appears to us seems different - so things come and go in our lives that we either like or dislike. To practise Wu Wei is really to step out of the way of what is coming naturally to fruition i.e. not to interfere with it or want for something else. And as this unfolding arises naturally of itself, if we get our ego out of the way, we see the fruits of that unfolding. If however, we grab for something else, or want something different, in a way, that unfolding becomes severed so we do not see the fruits of it. Ultimately, there is no Tao or ego, they are just ideas, there is no Wu Wei, passivity or inaction; there is only the Nameless that is Being. You are That. As everything is That, nothing can be gained and nothing can be lost for all is IT itself. So the Taoist Sage would not even consider success or failure, action or inaction...he/she would simply be and respond to whatever arose / expressed itself in the moment. Then without thinking continued about their business. Nice huh?

Taoists are the Tao, not-Taoists are the Tao - doesn't look like you have any choice in the matter

Taoism is religion, Tao is not. Christianity is religion, God is not. Tao and God are descriptions of One Thing. Nothing is a philosophy or a religion; they are both our attempts at describing That. So the Tao is as much alive in the Gospels as God is alive in the Tao Te Ching. All religions point to IT in their own way; IT appearing to point to itself.

Good OP. I teach monthly sometimes twice a month as part of my Taoist group so not quite the same but has taught me much: We split the cost of the hall which is £15 for three hours and we practise Qigong for around an hour. I do different types of Qigong depending on the time of year; so in Autumn/Winter I focus on stretching and massaging Qigong and Spring/Summer more dynamic movements. There are lots of questions such as "What does this move do?" so you have to know that but I also suggest that people listen internally to the "song of the body" - very hippy - and to think of the feel of energy moving along the arms and body and that it dictates the movement and expression in the hands. Generally, I don't go with a plan. I illustrate 30 mins of moves and then repeat them all again. So I have in my mind the start move which usually arises out of what people have been saying beforehand, then each move leads to another like a chain so I don't miss a move while repeating - this helps people remember the moves. Each month we return I try to include some previous moves so they become familiar; then I watch how they are being performed and instead of picking out a person's bad habits I'll say "make sure your knees aren't being drawn out of line by doing this..." etc but to the whole group - so gradually I see the quality of movement improving as a whole. Qigong is the Big Draw; people love it. We practise inside and outside, we walk to nearby woods and practise there. I always try to end on meditative moves as we then go inside to meditate. If people were leaving straight after practise I would do invigorating moves. Mix in some Dao Yin, Zhan Zhuang, Kai Men etc and there is plenty to do! Mixed levels isn't a problem as even experienced people sometimes need to return to basics somewhere or other. Insurance is easy to get. I have to remember to warn people before certain moves for instance shoulder injuries, back pain, blood pressure (especially Five Animal Games or where there is holding of breath). I don't advertise however our group has a page on my website which is mainly as a reminder for current members of the dates and to show their friends what they do. Also, it is useful for people to see how some of the moves derive from martial elements; it appears to give a better grounding. Overall, it helps to bring quiet into peoples lives, to make them more gentle and open; all good Taoist traits!

I also want to add that to be always loving to people or to be always angry and frustrated with them comes from the identity with the ego-self. To respond in the moment without a pre-conceived idea is to be spontaneous. In reacting in that way, we are not always the same, ultimately, the more our practice works for us, the greater we act through the tranquil still nature of what we are.

Zen masters hit people with sticks, slap them and shout at them out of love. They see in that moment, through compassion that what this person needs is a slap to Awaken them. Ultimately, a Master's love is without object, there is no love for something or anger about something present for they have realised there is only a single Something and the master and student are That. Those who experience such Selflessness fill with its Beauty as the more it is experienced the greater it unfolds through them. Whether we are angry and pushing buttons, or loving and caring; these are expressions of That which is neither awake nor deluded. When this is known, we experience a nice Ease.

Songtsan, I practised on my own...the answers are in nature; you could read that instead of books - then your understanding comes first hand rather than secondhand. Compassion naturally arises in the moment without the need to think compassionately; so you can leave it to itself or if that really floats your ego-boat you would probably like a Buddhist practice. Your post that shows your "Ideal Practice" is all a doing...something of your personal identity believes it must do something to become...you could of course investigate that, which may be more useful? However, it seems that your thinking is driving you strongly down the 'doing' route so perhaps you should do, do, do...to finally come to the realisation you never needed to do anything. Good luck whatever you choose.

The mundane is the absolute; the I and the not-I is One. All these terms we create for this and that - are dualistic