dao zhen

Thank you very much to share your experience. This is very valuable basic teachings.

Hey WQ. How is it going? I am taking a nice journey from the 23, and wont be around here till mid Feb or a bit later..... I just got invited to meet with a elder 14th Generation Dragon Gate Taoist, and he has offered to share his teachings......... Excited, but little bit nervous - he is a very old school - most DGT are 19th G nowadays...... But good chance for some new experiences..... So am going to investigate this...... I like what you are doing with Teacher Bi - I took some language lessons from him in the past, and he is a good guy - I like the paintings in his living room - hope you take good care of him - my apartment in town is about 5 min from his apartment. This may get me in trouble - politics - I do not really consider ANY of the 15th Generation "San Feng Pai" Kung Fu teachers - practicing Taoists. None of them have been ordained in a temple. They are Kung Fu students - and now are teachers of Kung Fu. Some have had some basic training in Taoism, but nothing in depth from my observations. I think they have much of value they can teach and I love the movement arts. They also have some very valuable Dao Yin methods and sets to teach that are good. But they are not ordained or practicing Taoists..... I think the only one in the group to get any real temple training was Teacher Yuan - a few years - but he left the temple, and lives as a lay person and teaches in his public academy......... Yes, all of those Kung Fu teachers I have met eat meat, and some smoke, and some drink also....... Nothing wrong with that. But most of the Taoists in the temples in Wudang belong to QuanZhen - and this sect has certain precepts... I was taught a standard by my teachers of what it means to be a Taoist. To be honest, I can not always live up to that standard, but I am trying, and every year I have more growth. We can see very clearly in the precepts outlined by the ancients what behavior is ok, and what is not for a Taoist. I advise many to read Eva Wongs translation of 7 Taoist Masters, and see how the Founder Wang Chong Yang behaved, and how his 7 students behaved, and the type of life style they led. This is a good example of Taoist behavior, lifestyle, and precepts. Having a top knot, calling yourself a member of a lineage, and wearing robes does not make one a Taoist in my view..... It is about how you live your daily life, following the precepts, cultivation of the heart, developing De, and harmonizing with nature........ Maybe we can travel together one time, and you can meet some real Taoists I know. I have one teacher on Huashan, and he goes into the caves there every spring for 45 days - no food - no water - just sits in lotus - 45 days straight - - I am going to try for 15 days maybe this spring - but under close supervision - That is a real Taoist in my opinion......... Yet this is just my opinion....... Nothing is absolute........ Much love to you.........

The Traditional Art of Taoist Internal Alchemy. It has a very long tradition in China, and actually the practice predates any appearance of the term and organized practice of what we know of as Taoism. The path that was taught comes from the branch of Lung Men Pai - though our teacher did not stress this aspect, and only stressed self cultivation, and actual attainment of the various levels and steps. It was told to me, that if you are not willing to follow the rules and guidelines related to diet, it is best to not waste your time to practice the methods........ So diet is a very important first step in this school of practice. I think no one really understands Yang Qi really...... Most just talk about in in relation to an errection, or some thing of this nature and that is the view...... Really, there is much, much more....... So the masters renew the body through Yang Qi....... Not through "air"........... The breathing function of the lung and nose stop............ Another function begins to take place........ Congenital Breathing.....

Thank you. Much love to you. I would love to meet one day, maybe it can take place. I think different traditons have different ways. In the path I learned, it is very common for the adept to eat no food at all. Yet, the body becomes very nourished, and in the history, many of the bodies became renewed and youthful, even though the adept was quite old, etc. Just a different teaching and path. I agree, that on one level, food is a VERY important medicine. I just wished to put another view out there, that there are traditions now that do not rely on food as a primary source of energy to nourish the corporeal body. In our school, food is of course a very needed thing in the first stages, but later it is not so important. We have a saying. When Vital Essence is full again - there is no desire or need for sex - When Vital Energy is full again - there is no need for food - When Vital Spirit is full again - there is no need for sleep - Many may not beleive this, but at the mid level, the adept does not take breath any more with the lung. This can be seen that at one level, the adept does into an underground pit for long term practice - maybe like in a hybernation state..... Kind of high level things to talk on...... But it can give people a different view point of what is possible, and what other traditions train in, and the results of such training.... Much love to you, and thank you for your friendship. Wishing you all the best on your journey.

I do not mean any disresepct to the Tao Bums here. But I feel I must say something on this topic. Taoism is an ancient art from China. Most of what is called Taoism in the West is just some form of Qigong, and not really what you would learn and experience in a Real Taoist Lineage Training. If one has not been innitiated into a lineage, and gone through the ceremony and transmission..... Then really they have no idea at all what such Lineage Ceremony and Transmission is about. Correct? I am sure many members have done some sort of training here, and maybe even some are members of a tradition that has lineage and ceremony. But until you take part in a Taoist Lineage, then really, you can not comment with authority on the subject. The practice, methods and magic of Taoism is still mostly unknown - in China and the West - What is known in the public, and talked about is just the very tip of the iceberg. It is still a very secret art, and has knowledge, magic, and methods that I have yet to see expressed in any other living wisdom tradition - (that I know of) - I respect all tradition. I do not try and comment on a tradition that I have not directly experienced. There are many ways, and many things that truly lie outside of our reasoning mind and our imagination ability... Yet even though these things lie outside of our sphere of consciousness - it does not mean they do not exist.... Taoism reaches such an extreme realm - that which lies outside of your current consciousness, imagination and reasoning sphere...

I by chance heard about my teachers Internal Alchemy teachings. I wanted to learn. I wrote many letters to request study. I was refused many, many times. I wrote many more letters. I finally was invited to study in the mountains for 25 day period, and receive the teachings. The teaching fee to take part in this private training seemed very high to me. But I wanted to go, so I found a way to put the funds I had together to pay this requested fee. I had to eat very little foods, and stay in a bad hotel to wait for the date set for our training in China. When we met, and I gave him the tuition fee in an envelope with my feeling of respect he said this: "It is very important for the student to pay." "This is a lot of money." "I am sorry for this. This money will be used for the following projects in our work....." "You will never need to pay any fee again in our study." What I learned and was taught was priceless - and can not compare to money. I think the payment is a form of lesson for the student. To have the student develop a heart of wishing to give something to the teacher - this creates a bond. Just my ideas on this subject......

Thank you very much for your letter. My teacher was from the Lung Men Pai Branch of Quan Zhen - Qian Shan Mountain area in Liaoning - But he felt lineage had some limitation, and did not stress lineage or talking about such things. But when I first studied with him, I had to bow down to many gods and shrine in a high mountain temple, in the snow, and strong wind..... It was very painful, and he was so serious that time, it was a little scarey for me. He really stressed the practice of meditation. My teacher has left now to the cave in the deep mountains, and will return in 3 years - but also maybe he will never return. He was a little different compared to most Taoists I have met in China. He almost always just do the meditation, and did not worry much about ceremony and such like, and did not talk much with common conversation. He taught the practice and gave the transmissions. He taught the theory of I-Ching, Yin Yang, 5 Element, Lo Diagram, and many others. He taught these guidelines and precepts through his own example, the way he walked and the way he lived his daily life and not so much with words. Generally they may follow: ~ No killing ~No sex misconduct ~No false speech / no false thought / no false heart ~No stealing / no action of dis-harmony ~No drinking Generally he taught that we should gain an inner guidance when we do the practice properly and gain DE. This will serve as a natural moral compass. This internal compass will naturally guide us in life and in action, and we will have proper action that will serve to support the practice. This was real he said. To blindly follow rules, he felt was false. He was a little different from many Traditional Taoists I met in China. I still have much to learn, and am just a student. Thank you for your sharing. With sincere respect. PS. He talked about FU, and also MAGIC WORDS - and said they are very real and important. He said at higher levels in the practice, without the MAGIC WORD, you can not pass some levels. He just did not teach me those subjects yet.

Dao Zhang. Thank you very much for your sharing about this subject. I have learned very little, and hope to gain more knowledge in the future. Good luck in your teachings and practice. With my sincere respect. Thank you.

Dear Vajrasattva. I hope you are very fine today. I enjoyed your Silat videos, and I studied Silat and Kali a long time ago with Guro Inasanto, and a few others; it is a beautiful art. I would like to share some experience, and perhaps it can give you another view on this subject. Perhaps this is common knowledge for you, and if so, please forgive my post here. I think this is an issue that can really only be understood from experience. Perhaps for me, my first real entry into the internal was with my Shing Yi instructor who I spent 4 years with. When I studied under him, he advised me to eat meat, and it really helped with the system, and we worked on many different aspects of internal cultivation, leading to many ability and experience - external qi ability, drawing qi from nature, circulating this external qi in the body, building and strengthing of the wei qi or protective qi, etc. After this training and experience - THIS WAS INTERNAL - I had real experiences, and some real ability and skill..... Or so I thought..... Later on in life, I met my Internal Alchemy teacher.... Part of his training was to abstain from all meat, and eat a very simple diet -mostly vegetables - and during intensive trainings, to eat very little food - also no spice was allowed - and we drank only hot boiled water. During the first intensive training, experiences arose, and events took place that were far / far / far outside of anything I had experienced, read about, or could have imagined..... It was taught during the theory lessons, that the reason for the diet is to creat a condition for the Yang Qi to enter. We must do the work to create an environment that will provide a proper "home" for this Qi to arise. Meat creates a condiiton that will not alow this Qi to arrive. Of course there are many kinds of Qi, and many qualities of Qi that are within our human form we can cultivate also. This cultivation of Yang Qi or the Qi that embodies the emptiness that surrounds Heaven and Earth are perhaps something unique to this Alchemy Tradition. From my experience in other systems of Qigong and Internal Martial Arts, they do not teach this cultivation of Yang Qi. I am not sure though, as I do not know everything, and have just learned a little. Just wanted to give a different view, that in some paths, eating meat can enhance the training, while in others eating meat can be a hinderance to the training. There is another view on eating meat that one will take on negative karma from the killing and suffering of the living beings. This view is also subcribed to in the tradition I learned, yet perhaps this only will affect the practice in much higher levels, and not in the first stages. All serious teachers and students of Taoist Internal Alchemy I have met in China are very strict vegetarians. Also most Taoists I have met do not eat any meat products. I have also met some a few Taoists who break the precepts and eat meat, smoke and drink - but maybe they are just not strong willed and can not keep the vows.

Dao Zhang Mak Tin Si. I hope you are fine today. Thank you very much for your effort to share on the Tao Bums. Thank you for your many posts and sharing here; I think many people have learned a lot of good information on Taoism from you. I also like your posts, though wish you wrote the pinyin in Mandarian and not Cantonese; I think most western people learning Taoism or Qigong, learn the mandarian pinyin system. I have a question on this Offering ceremony. I know you are from the ZhengYi branch of Southern Taoism I have learned a little from the Northern QuanZhen branch - very, very little. I have never seen meat and animal used in the offering ceremony in QuanZhen temples, but have not seen so many ceremony. Is it a comon practice to offer animal as an offering for Northern QuanZhen Ceremony, or is it just a ritual practiced by the ZhengYi. I also seem to remember seeing a Southern ZhengYi Ceremony in Lung Hu Shan area, where they killed a live chicken, and used the blood and did many things with a sword and burning Fu..... These sorts of things I have never seen in the Northern QuanZhen branch, and was hoping you could please share your experience and also to talk about the difference in the Northern QuanZhen and Southern ZhengYi and any difference in the manner in which they pray or give offerings. Thank you so much for your time, and to share your experience. With much respect. Sincerely, Dao Zhen

Dao will provide........ Dao does provide......... But sometimes we are too blind and full of ego to see..... I said, "Today, there are not many systems to support spiritual teachers, and they also have to pay for rent, and food. Most of my teachers in China charged some fee for the first trainings, and then after that we were family, and there was never any money exchanged - though the relationship changed, and I had to pay in practice, or helping them with projects, or tasks, etc." It is a modern way of showing respect, and a giving heart, and also a humility and sincerity. Of course it should not be abused." No teacher can make one a Taoist. A Taoist is made through self cultivation. A Taoist is one who follows the Way of the Great Natural Law. A Taoist does not need a piece of paper or license. They have the same system in China today. I can pay money and get an official "Taoist Lineage" passport plastic thing with my photo in it, and be registered with the Chinese government, etc..... I am not, and I refuse to get such a registration. I know of some Americans who teach and call themselves Taoists and have come for a few weeks, paid money and obtained such registration. I know one person who runs some tours to China, and all members of the tour can come home with such plastic "Taoist" passports and be "official". I feel this is very wrong, and goes against the Way of Taoism. I am saying that if you are taking regular lessons with a master, or if a master is sponsoring a special training or workshop with you, it is proper to pay. There are costs and expenses the teacher will suffer for his efforts in teaching, and if possible, the student should show sincere thanks, and pay some tuition. The real thanks for the teachings should come from the student working hard to practice the method taught, and if possible master it. Now....... If there are some sincere student who can not afford the workshop, or class then something should be made available to allow them to learn. This is all in the public realm. Traditional disciple relationships should never really involve payment and money. In such a relationship it is more like father/mother and son/daughter. My teacher often paid for meals, hotels, and other costs when we studied together; and even helped me to set up my business and taught me much about herb export and other things related to earning money to make sure the material realm was taken care of. Yet I had many other responsability and work I had to do for him. I ran a small academy for Taoist Yoga..... We had students come from time to time who wished to study, but honestly said they could not afford payment of the class fees - we have costs such as rent for the space, and other costs to run the public school - We allowed them to come for free. I have run public workshops in China. Almost every workshop, there is a person (sometimes more than one) who can not attend due to the costs of the workshop, yet they wish to attend - we always try our best to work something out with them to allow them to come - though we can not afford to pay their hotel, food and transportation costs. In this way, I feel I am being honest, and trying my best to not let anyone miss out on something we are involved in due to money. We live in a material society, and it is a fact of this current age we are in. There is no public support of spiritual study or projects. I have a dream to house a retreat project for serious alchemy students in China. Or at the very least have myself and a fellow disciple go off and do long term practice and exploration in alchemy. Why are we not doing it right now? Money....... It is something we have to face and deal with in these times..... And most people teaching in the public are also bound by the reality of money..... But, there should be no abuse. Everything should be within a normal standard; within reason.

I really liked the information shared in this topic - Pre-heaven Jing, a panacea for sufferings Topic starter: exorcist_1699 I think it died out too early....... Such a deep topic, and exorcist_1699 shared much information as did Taomeow

Yes, I agree with you. My teacher said the same thing to me in his teachings - only he used slightly different words - 1. A set of secrets---a decisive factor for success in your pursuit of Tao - Without the method of practice, you can have no chance of success. 2.Money - you need some food and clothes and residence when you begin your silent exercise, because in reality your corporeality hasn't been thoroughly purged of. 3. Partners - The process of disciplining your heart, for the practitioners, is the monotonous practice at beginning, still more for the common people. From now and then to be encouraged and get more morale will consolidate your resolution and strengthen you more confidences. On other side, during the process there will be many crises waiting for you to go through, and so the assistance from the comrade is necessary or even indispensable. 4. An Appropriate Site - The house you reside in should hold aloof from war, fighting or upheaval, and should be away from the intersections. For the easy availability of provision being somewhat near the town or city is ideal. The more silent and isolated the better. A cave carved half way down the cliff is the best place for some saints. Yet at first you should not be obliged to meet these conditions because to let your heart remain free from all rambling thoughts and continue to be still is the most important thing. Generally speaking, the house in the depth of a forest while the necessities are adequate and no other matters to harass your heart is ideal. I hope to have things ready in 1.5 to 2 years - regarding the house, and the funds for the long term practice. A difficult factor is to find proper practice partners. They should be honest, trustworthy, sincere and pure. People with a very strong will-power, to face such a task, and continue through to the end.

Yes, I agree. We are thinking that it is perhaps best with just 3 members. Too many people and it makes trouble with the local government. My teacher would most likely also visit at times; but now he is in a cave in the remote mountains. It was taught that men and women shopuld be seperate, due to the nature of attraction, etc. I think the time frame can differ depending on ones Heavenly Attributes they are born with; generally we think 9 - 12 years is a good time. I think if a member does want to leave in the middle of the course of practice, it is their freedom, but they can not rejoin later. Yes, all members have to be serious in their goal to practice Alchemy Meditation. We are seeking to gain our liberation, and uncover our True Nature from practice. Yet in the first stages, we need companions, and can support each others practice. There will be a very strict time schedule, and rules to create the proper environment for serious practice. We must have some rules, to make sure it is a quiet environment. In addition to the meditation practice, there must be some farming activity for the first year or perhaps two. From my teachers experience and method, it is said that after perhaps 3 - 6 months of following the practice in retreat - doing the practice 9 or more hours per day - very little food is needed - but we must also be practical, and prepare stores of food, and have a good farm area for vegetables. I am very serious to pursue this goal, as from my experience the problem is environment. You must have a remote and quiet place in nature to take part in the serious long term practice. We feel we will have enough money to support all costs for the project; though members are welcome to donate funds if they join to show their sincere feeling in support of this effort we are making. Would you be interested in joining this goal and shared dream?

Yes......... I am in the process of seeing this dream come true..... But my idea is to do it in China..... I am raising money through our workshops with - http://www.eternalspringtours.com I currently have 3 locations I have found in Wudangshan. I think if you have conections, China can be easier, as the costs are much cheaper. We have thought to get an old farm house community that is already cultivated, then fix it up a bit, to make it more comfortable with a Western standard. My teacher was going to oversee the project, but currently he has gone off to finish his cultivation, and may come back in 3 years or so. But we do have a good portion of the practice methods in the system documented, so there is a very good system of material for the members to practice. Before my teacher left, he taught me much about retreat life, and we hiked in the mountains, and he taught about how to plant what vegetables, and how to preserve them in winter, practice schedule, rules for community, etc. So I am looking to continue this project and dream. The problem with such a project, is it can not be a large group of people. We think 3 to 5 members is enough. By my teachers guidelines, the retreat training should be at least 3 years, but usually 9 - 12 years. During that time, you should have no contact with the outside world, and just live like a simple farmer, and follow the daily practice methods. If people make proper progress, there is a stage when they will go into a hybernation state, and at that time we should have the underground room. The member goes into the underground room to further the practice, and another member must have the task to care for their safety and wellbeing to protect the body from disturbance, noise, etc. The main concern is money. I am looking now to set up a foundation in addition to our workshop events to further this dream. It is a very serious endevor. Danger and death are a real possibility in serious longterm practice. By looking at the history of these arts, many adepts have died midway in practice. This is due to the attachment and moving of mind-will during practice. So we must in the first stages gain stillness of mind, and tranquility of heart, and no attachment to desires. This is for serious practice. Ideas? I have also recently made good connections with an agent in Beijing, and they can provide longterm residence visa to members. I hope to have a location picked by 2009 - I already have one in Wudang, but need to negotiate the price. I also am looking to perhaps check out Zhongnanshan.... The location in Wudang is outside the tourism zone, so it is not under control of the government, and the land is privately owned.

Four Emblematic Symbols Also called the Four Symbols. In the I Ching they are referred to as the elements of wood, fire, metal, and water. In the Yin-Yang theory system they are refered to as Blue Dragon, White Tiger, Red Bird, and Black Tortoise, which symbolize the liver, lung, heart and kidney; or east, west, south, and north; or blue, white, red, and black; or eyes, nose, tongue, and ears respectively. In Internal Alchemy Practice, practitioners should gaze inwardly, breath evenly and smoothly through their nose, keep the mouth closed with their tongue naturally raised against the upper palate, and concentrate their hearing inside themselves rather than outside. Following this course, people can reach the phase where the one True Heart can see, can breath, can hear, and so on in an undifferentiated whole, free of any difference and artificiality. In general, the first steps to take are to begin the process of - Inward Gazing - Then begin the process of - Inward Listening - We may understand that in our life, the eyes and ears play a very important role, and in the course of practice these "powers" also play a very important role. Next you may begin to "combine" with the breathing..... First it is the Acquired breath or the breath that is from the action of the lungs and nose........ Later the Congenital Breath will come on the scene...... It is all a natural course...... You take action in the first stages, but later must let nature take its own development course....... Really, without a teacher, it is almost impossible to make real progress..... There is a system of hand postures and mudras you can use with special "deployment" of mind-will that very quickly open the channels, and develop the Qi in a specific course..... Begin on your own to still the mind, and lessen desires........ Become quiet, and clean.... Pure..... This is a good starting place....... Sit at the time between 23:00 - 1:00 - begin in the first stages to face south Sit in the morning at the times of 5:00 - 7:00 Later let it become natural, and you will wake up naturally in the night, then sit up and practice naturally..... Please find one basic practice here that can help.... ~ Combine Heart Mind and Breathing ~ Feel free to email me a personal message, and we can share our experience, or talk in more detail........

I hope someone can see the way, and follow it...... In reality, we can show the way and the secret, but most will never have eyes to see or the wisdom to understand... Cultivating both True Nature and Life Force Together True Nature means Congenital Shen, and Life Force means Qi. Originally, Congenital Shen and Primeval Qi are one, in a state of union, without any division. When people come into being, which means to be in an acquired stage, Congenital Shen settles in the heart sphere, giving rise to Congenital Nature. Then the Eighth Cognitive Shen will come to attach to Congenital Nature, surrounding it completely and the Cognitive Shen family will gradually develop to its full state. Primeval Qi takes place in the kidney sphere, giving rise to Jing, which refers to Life Force. To sail against the current of life, pursuers of Tao need to bring Congenital Shen and Primeval Qi back into the former state of union.

_____ __ __ _____ (Li) ) O Take the Yang from Kan and the Yin from Li....... ( __ __ _____ __ __ (Kan) Creating.......... _____ _____ _____ (Chien - the creative) O _____ _____ _____ (Kun - the receptive)

I have only been to Shiyan twice...... I do not know it very well, as it is kind of a long journey for me on the bus........ You are welcome to also come down here to Wudang when you are free..... I just set up a wonderful meditation room in my apartment, that can double as a guest bedroom - as long as you do not mind sleeping on the floor on a futon... I like your point of view, and think you have a good direction in your ideas..... Maybe we can have some good conversations together........