KoffeeKommando

Actually, it's better to *know* you *don't* have freewill. No delusion of the self, by the self. To think you actually have control agency....is bad.

Go here and read. Months of material: http://www.egodeath.com/ This section especially: http://www.egodeath.com/#_Determinism_and_Transcendence Oops, Science is finding out the real deal by accident (as Steve details): "The suggestion is that we become aware of a "choice" to perform a given activity after the body has already prepared to do it." The masses are gonna freak out....there goes the neighborhood! Very good page to read first (If you want some history thrown in): Experiencing Determinism http://www.egodeath.com/ExperiencingDeterminism.htm

Astral wins this one. Nails it. Land. The key to everything. N55 in Copenhagen discuss this: http://www.n55.dk/MANUALS/LAND/LAND.html http://www.n55.dk/MANUALS/DISCUSSIONS/N55_TEXTS/AB_LAND.html Now....how do we fix this? Because, if every single person was "allocated" a free "piece of land", there would be reduced need for "money" (oops, we start to see the 1% man behind the curtain peeking out). I mean, this is your birthright on Planet Earth. It's literally been stolen from you by the country you reside in (concentration of power). In many places, you have *no right* to freely stay on the surface of the Earth. Nice huh? Let that one sink in for a minute. If you had free land, you could just build a small shelter and be done with it. It was done for thousands of years till *bad humans* came along and ruined the situation. If you live simply, you should be left alone. Period. Denying this is actively going against creation. So now you know what makes this imperfect world go round. Stripping people of "their" land has been done in many stages. It's not right and you have to call a spade a spade. PS - Taxation is ownership if you haven't guessed by now. Pay "the man" to live on *his* land (whoever he is...probably the devil in all actuality).

Dead wood. Perfect description.

The Gospel Of Thomas is like a Cliff's Notes of the bible. It's all in there. Now why all the other stuff was added....to cause confusion? It's like the modern day. Humans go nuts and complicate everything. If you complicate "the law"...the commoner cannot even know what is illegal or true. So now you need lawyers and judges. Popes, bishops, priests, and ministers. Job security for thousands of years. The ones at the top can use this confusion to their advantage as well. Twist the interpretations and you can demonize your opponents in the eyes of the unenlightened masses. Bah...anyhoo...it's way beyond this thread. The more direct the material, the better, I think. The Gospel Of Thomas and the Tao are direct works that short circuit all this. There is no money to be made from the truth. It comes with it's own built in reward.

Christians and Jews don't agree with each other at the most basic level. Who went after the gnostics with the aim to kill them down to the last man? What was their link to the modern "bible"? Victors write history. There are quite a few questionable stories in the bible. This is understandable because "god" didn't write it. The victors did. It shows you their mindset. And it's a strange one from what I've seen. But anyway, I don't really want to discuss that here. I just want others to research those two basic questions and go from there on their own. The man said it: Back on topic, hitting the wilderness is really good for you. You find out exactly what you *don't* need to exist. That's one of the best lessons you can learn.

Cancer cells are killed when exposed to oxygen. I'd say it's critical we all learn proper breathing. High oxygen levels in the blood probably have a "synergistic" protective effect. Diseases/pests attack weakness. Just like in plants. If the soil they grow in is full of the proper minerals etc., the plants are immune to attack.

You bet Sailor: A Fuller Explanation And it's all on autopilot. Self-regulating.

I just did a little research on this. I'm "new" to Taoist/Buddhist "practices". "In Cloudwalking Owl's experience, the full range of meditative "experiences" -- e.g. sleepiness, physical pain, boredom, hallucinations, visions, psychic experiences, energetic phenomena of various sorts -- were all revealed to be impediments to "sitting and forgetting." My own understanding and experience is that it's not the experiences per se but rather our egoic attachment to (or rejection of) them that is the impediment. The ultimate contentment, satisfaction and nondual joy of "one taste" emerges as we fully allow bliss and agony, boredom and rapture, visions and vacuity, to arise and dissolve without interference." There we go. Hoffman details how cultures had/have specific ceremonies utilizing ethnogens. The purpose of these ceremonies was to defeat egoic thinking. Basically, to get the human to experience "what's behind the curtain" and lose the old way of thinking: http://www.egodeath.com/MaximalEntheogenTheoryOfReligion.htm http://www.egodeath.com/WineAndSacredMeals.htm http://www.egodeath.com/MysticInitiationOriginChristianity.htm Many ways to experience the same thing...and to have the same end result. Some ways are quicker than others. Just make sure what you get into is the "right" way, not something made up by egoic minded deceivers. Always test for true humility. Why does some of "modern society" reject these ideas and ceremonial (ethnogenic) experiences? Jesus tells ya: They don't want you to be fully "experienced". It's the egoic mindset at work. All glory and fame to them...none for the true individual experience. There is no fame in the individual experience. Just humility, it's own reward. Endless distractions and convoluted practices designed to keep you from finding the truth.

That's just like Hoffman says. We must get the egoic mind to reach it's limits and betray itself. It's a change of your being at the deepest level. It's good for you. He posits that entheogens are the quickest way to do this. Historically, this was true and widely accepted. I shortened your quote on purpose. It sums up many different human approaches to "truth". Get human ego out of the way...and it will be realized! People make up too much bullshit. This is a big topic. We could spend a month on it...

Found it: http://www.egodeath.com/DeterminismGnosticism.htm Good stuff.

There are people "locked in" the "matrix" so to speak. Read here. See ya in a month/year: http://www.egodeath.com/index.html Here's a bit of it: http://www.egodeath.com/practmetafreedom.htm So yeah: These "types" of people exist for a reason. The student laughing at the Tao is a necessary component of "totality". Basically, all this is pre-determined in a way. You will follow the teachings if you will. Only certain people are "destined" to. Hoffman has a page that really spells out the nuts and bolts of this. If I find it I'll post again. Whatever happens is *gonna* happen. Though people that realize this will be able to make "choices" of sorts. The people that don't take this to heart, and realize something else called the shots (the universe/original consciousness?) are doomed to just wander around like automatons. Don't be mad at them...they are just "the scenery".

You have my vote sir! When can you start?

Consciousness (the original one) is "outside" of and "surrounding" our 3D reality/universe. But small bits of it are "within" our reality. In humans. See gnostic writings. It can affect "things" as physical "things" are made from energy events. Read "A Fuller Explanation". But it's not a force. Can you measure or weigh an idea you have in your head right now? How big is that thought in your mind right now? How heavy is it? The thing is, the "idea" or intention can make energy move and make things change physical form. Among other things. There is probably a whole set of things it can do. We might not normally have enough control over consciousness to "wield" it. Or there is some other limitation. Unknown at this point. But there are a myriad of stories and legends alluding to this capability. But it's undetectable by measurement devices. Just like a complex idea floating in your head is undetectable. Jesus thought about this as well. He was puzzled about his own construction:

Now I have a question...similar to the questions raised by others here. How did the Taoists come to have this knowledge? If not observable or measurable by the normal senses and equipment... Did "someone" or "something" drop on the scene and hand this knowledge to them? Did all the knowledge come from "elsewhere" via meditation, dreams, etc? For example, Jesus came and directly explained secret teachings to his followers. The gnostics speak quite a bit about this. Jesus being part man, part "god" would have known this information. He may have been "not of this Earth"...we can only speculate. Sounds like some pretty heavy duty information. With a built in protective element. I guess I also ask this in a historical sense. Were there tales of where the Taoist knowledge came from, what it's source was?

Tough one. Our "scientific method" and machines may be completely unsuitable to the task. Maybe we can only collect a few more puzzle pieces. I guess it can't hurt to try though? Or is there a danger in this line of reasoning. The Tao does possibly warn against this. Is the right way just to align yourself with the nature of things and blend with "it" eventually? The bird in the hand might just be worth two in the bush.

I understand where the OP is coming from. Other posters have nailed all the sentiments that matter. To me "science" does not actually exist. If it does, this means it has become a religion with adherents. Or something straight out of communist ideology. The scientific method can be used to deduce specific things. It's used to describe what is already "here". Because people using this method have basically "started over" and tossed out the old knowledge, they really put themselves behind. But the "catalog" of things and combinations not yet discovered is enormous. Better to stick with things that have a known track record. Monks in the mountains have been at it longer It's all good. There is a place for both ways of thinking. Maybe they don't need to be mixed? Or maybe they *will* be mixed in the far future? I think the "universe" does not need the "scientific method" though. It was built...assembled...without it. "Science" can only *describe* it...and manipulate *already existing* things very crudely. So what "way" or "method" was/is superior? These two things explain a lot: Sacred Geometry 101E: Metatron's Cube - YouTube - http://bit.ly/GAIICo A Fuller Explanation: Amy Edmonson - http://bit.ly/GLqqIv Watch the video, read the book by Amy Edmonson. It will jump right out at you if you are able to understand. When the video discusses consciousness preceding reality...it's not solely humans he's talking about. See also: some gnostic beliefs. The original ones dealing with creation. Buckminster Fuller talked about everything being energy events. He saw what the real deal was and attempted to describe it. If a pure consciousness created everything "physical" we see, would you rather describe it....or *interact* with "it"? Now that's a question eh?....

Oh yes, I'm not saying all of the bible is crap. I would study what others have found from really digging into it. Just see what Melissa Cutler has found in her limited research. There are quite a few others with similar findings. I do like how she lays out comparisons. Simple. You begin to see a pattern emerge. Yep. I'm in between disturbed and marveling right now. Closer to marvel. Being disturbed at what you find does open up potential paths. And yeah, there are choices to make at that point. Red pill, blue pill and all that... I'm just sharing things I've found. Sure, they might be disturbing to some. They were to me. Although I've had nagging suspicions since I was a child. Yep, anybody going around claiming the title of "gnostic" at this point is silly. Silly like satanists etc. I mean, they have their points too. But, any of the cult-ish stuff is past. We are officially beyond that at this metaphysical junction. I think there is enough info out there. Everybody has to align at this point. What will you choose is the only question left. Death tastes pretty shitty I bet. I'll pick the other option thanks: I'm rambling at this point. Need to tag somebody so they can get in the ring with some of their "disturbing" insights. Let's hear it!

Sure. Native Americans are all about the dream stuff. It's intriguing. My own personal problem with the "bible" is that I think it was tampered with in a major way. Some people with an agenda literally added quite a few things. The scribes and priests in those days were pretty skilled (and devious?). As a result I don't trust much of it to give me "the real deal". Bits and pieces. A lot of good articles here by Melissa Cutler w/plausible proof: http://www.original-bible.com/ We have a tough job as decent humans. Lots of junk to sift through. The thing that attracted me to the Tao is the distillation of things down to the most important part. The writings directly link to the reality of the human situation. None of it goes overboard. There is no hype or outlandish situations. Just saying. Not arguing or anything.

Perfect advice. The second I saw Thelema Press...wasn't that Aleister Crowley's word he cooked up? There is a whole "modern gnostic" movement made up of people looking for something to hitch their fame and fortune to. Take the name and run with it seems to be the MO. Lately humans have run out of ideas. You can see it in pop culture etc. These people are bandwagon jumpers. Or actively malicious/misleading. The original gnostics (general group) had their say and told what they told. Personally, I see no need to improve on anything. I just like to be aware...and take to heart things that make solid(rational/universal/eternal?)sense. Examples in the vein of fake religion teachers: This is why ninjutsu is such a dirty word in MA - http://bit.ly/GBqSj7 It's a weird enough world out there without misdirection. Oh well. You can't stop it. You can only take care of yourself and your part.

@ Owledge Precisely! You know...I was going to talk about that topic next. Though it might be "off topic" to this but maybe not. Get this (big post ahead): I was reading various gnostic writings and whatnot and at the same time some things about geometry. Was doing some "alternative" building using hexagons. Found these connections: Sacred Geometry 101E: Metatron's Cube - YouTube - http://bit.ly/GAIICo Special bonus was towards the end of his video. He discusses where ideas come from. Ideas always precede reality. They are just floating around in minds...then get turned into 3D reality at some later time. More on that in just a sec. The Metatron's Cube drawing (according to legend) was given to someone by a "scribe of god". The drawing is obviously a product of advanced "intelligence" or shall we say "a consciousness". It shows the 5 Platonic solids in 3D "hologram" form....and others are implied from it (fractal concept embedded). Purely brilliant. He posits that this is just a sample of "god's blueprints". Amy Edmonson was a assistant to Buckminster Fuller in the 80's. She wrote a book explaining some of his math and ideas. He was a very odd "turned-on" individual. Some of his motivation came from "religious" experiences. Here is a copy of her book: http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/40.html Zipped copy: http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marksomers/afullerex.zip The entire Chapter 1 is a goldmine. You begin to see where this is all heading. There is much more. You have to watch the Metatron's Cube video...then with that information in mind read 'A Fuller Explanation" Basically, the gnostics said that the god of the bible was a "lesser" being operating in our "3D" universe. There was a seperation of sorts. Outside of our 3D "physical" universe is the "consciousness" or as Fuller said "the unknowable totality of generalized principles". This consciousness created everything (outside itself, if there is an "outside") from pure thought. The Metatron's Cube drawing shows some of the building blocks that our reality is made from. Fuller went further and explained this mathematically and otherwise. Here's where he starts tying into Metatron's Cube: So...basically...Fuller validates the Metatron's Cube drawing/symbolism. The tetrahedron is the minimum system or "building" block that everything (in our 3D universe) is made from. Fuller said that everything is actually a bunch of energy events...not actual "physical" dumb stuff as they teach in school. Puzzle pieces and clues. ---------------------- Little detour--------- ( 2, 4, and 6 are very important. 3 is also. 2+1=3..2x3=6 a cube is 6 sided. A tetrahedron (made from 3 "edged" events)has 4 sides, 2 of them put together makes the points of a cube (there's the 4 and 2 relating to 6 again). "A tetrahedron is a triangular pyramid, and the regular tetrahedron is self-dual."...it's a copy of itself therefore it's the simplest building block. Why the mention of a trinity in some religion? 2+1=3...2 "real" personifications...one spirit...scary eh?) Also: Maybe 2,4,6 are the "what is" or "advantage". 1,3,5 etc. are the "what is not" or "usefulness"? This also talks about space where there is nothing..a useful concept in geometry/conceptual thinking. In my opinion...none of these things are manmade concepts. They came from "somewhere else" a long long time ago. ---------------------------------------------- How does this relate to consciousness? Why did Charles Gilchrist mention this in his video? Everything we see in this universe is literally the manifestation of pure thought energy. We can somewhat describe it using math. But we cannot describe the *original* source. "It" is beyond our human comprehension. Fuller wanted to know what was behind the manifestation. He was able to glimpse a bit of the mystery and describe it to us. The "scribe of god" that dropped off the Metatron's Cube drawing was showing us a little bit of the mystery too. The "conciousness", "nameless", "eternal Tao" cannot talk directly with us. So there are created lesser beings (messengers...above us, yet below the "nameless") that sometimes drop in to communicate in ways we can understand. The gnostics tried to explain some of this. It's complicated as hell. But what do you expect? Think creating a Universe from pure intention and thought would go easy? According to the gnostics lots of stuff went wrong. But the Tao tells us that's ok too. It's all part of what happens. So..our reality is made up of a bunch of energy events (building blocks) arranged in specific ways like incredible multifaced Legos. And it all came from pure thought (that we cannot interact fully with till we revert to energy ourselves). When we at least align ourselves with these original thoughts, it's good. We "go with the flow", not against it. Tuning into the *reality* of our reality. Religion has halfassedly tried to explain these things. But some "pharisees and scribes" have hidden what they found. In direct contradiction with "the rules". They want to set up their own little kingdoms for fame and fortune here on Earth. Jesus and the Tao warn about this many times. Like I said, reality is weirder and more fantastic that we can imagine. Movies like The Matrix, Dark City, and the like are pale imitations of what is really going on. True reality is so mindblowing that you can't handle it in any shape or form. It's "outside" of what we can imagine. This means the eternal name *cannot* be named by us. We can only grope around and see the manifestations. Those can be named by science etc. etc. But...this is not a problem. Relax desires and striving. Don't worry about what's going on so much. This is the way to join the winning team.

Hello to all from the dusty plains of New Mexico. Finally decided to sign up after seeing posts on the Gospel Of Thomas. Now there's a heady topic with many threads to/parallels in the Tao. Looking forward to some great insights and thought provoking discussions! KK

This was my gut feeling also from reading both sources. Heretical does not matter....truth matters. So called "Christians" need to think about this one: Beliefs should be discussed openly. You can't gloss over bad stuff or put things on pedestals. Your false assumptions will be put to the test. And *will* fail. You have to be ok with that. Humility. The truth will disturb you. But it needs to be accepted. Then there is the topic of active, ongoing deception out there. It's blatant if you know what you are looking at: Recognize what is in your sight. You need to *understand* what your eyes see. Not just identify. Cool and most important concept. That leads us to.... That's the kind of people you are dealing with. If they took the keys of knowledge and entered (used them as intended)...they would have not been able to hide the keys. They would have done the right thing and shared the knowledge instead. These people are selfish to the extreme. You need to be a better human than the "leaders". Lots of incredible concepts dropped in the Gospel Of Thomas. #3 is the double whammy. Jesus warns you about deceptive humans...then tells you what you need to know point blank. The Kingdom inside of you and outside of you? Internal/external? Where have we heard that before? Hmmm. Internal and external exercises that will bring you to "know yourself"? And also know your part in the greater scheme of things..... The man was *on it*.

This has been going on a *very* long time. The answer? Let Jesus tell ya It's by design. Very nice posts on this topic. Made me sign up actually. This is a very heavy document. Mainstream "Christians" freak out when you quote anything from this. It actually causes visible mental distress in them. Like a massive "does not compute" moment. Truthful things are powerful. Look at the Gospel Of Thomas...114 sayings. The Tao...82 Simple and to the point. Between those two sources, what else do you need as a human? The collection of "books" chosen for the "bible" seems to me like a hack job and/or misdirection. Obfuscation. As an aside, the real truth of things is probably weirder than we can imagine.