gatito

...

The Shiva Sutras of Panini. And a link to Paul Kiparsky's paper from that page.

Yes, you may be right... I just "googled" the track on YouTube and listened on the speakers - but didn't watch the video. This is better, I think: - However, it raises the possibility of an interesting discussion that I'll pick-up in my PPF (in order to avoid thread-hijacking... )

Mme. g. and I are listeng to this today: -

That last sentence should be pinned...! In fact, if you don't mind, I'll take that statement and play with it a bit in my PPF (so that I don't hijack your thead...). _/\_

Apech is correct and I noticed that he was similarly correct in highlighting another extremely poor translation to the OP here in September 2011... Edit to add: *** Thread Split *** Thread split to Vasagupta's Shiva Sutras for a decent translation as well as in the interests of informed, educated (and perhaps even intelligent) discussion.

You might want to check this out if you haven't already spotted it: -

Hoping that someone (a jīva) can enlighten me...

******* O/P Notice Begins ******* See Owner Permissions dwai is permanently banned from this thread for post # 17 Jonesboy and rainbowvein are also permanently banned from this thread for "thanking" dwai for post # 17 All posting in this thread is now suspended for 7 days. The thread has been left unlocked so that anyone who has already contributed can choose to edit or delete their existing posts. ******* O/P Notice Ends *******

Glad to hear the news Flo and glad to see a thread like this... Asana practice is cool Best Wishes for your continuing success and happiness!

Yes, I spotted that a while ago and I'd also noticed that your sanskrit is even worse than your English... Yes and the misunderstanding is entirely yours. Allow me to clarify by rephrasing this :- to this: - You stated in your own words (i.e. from your own lips) that:- "At some point, by God's grace" (i.e. as opposed to a jīva's grace) "they are granted direct experience". In other words, the jīva has nothing to do with any enlightenment... Is that clear now...? (BTW you should have spelt God's Grace with a capital G but I won't be pedantic... ) Now, moving on to Grace; another concept that you don't understand. Grace cannot be earned by a putative jīva-receiver it is by definition a freebie (as well as having nothing to do with any putative jīva-transmitter). The scriptures phrase it better but then I'm not claiming to be a ऋषि...

Not by a jīva's grace... From your own lips... Is that clear now...?

I'm entirely familiar with that model already and, without writing an essay, as I've already said several times... because it's my own direct first-hand experience for which I also have ample scriptural corroboration. Just double-checking that I haven't overlooked something (i.e. an obscure primary sanskrit scriptural source).

Thanks! I'll go check.

Noticed you'd just edited to add the bit that I've quoted. Looking at the Wikipedia article, that can be explained in Western psychological terms as re-parenting - nothing to do with some sort of mystical "transmission" from another jīva. I'm extremely familiar with Kashmiri Shaivism (as well as Vedanta) and there's no jīva to jīva "transmission" there either. Primary (sanskrit) sources are my interest.