gatito

Interestingly, I've noticed that MH understands the heart of Aikido: -

Buddhism is a wisdom tradition. It asserts that we are liberated by the power of our own understanding. The three purposes of Buddhist debate are to defeat your own and others’ misconceptions, to establish your own correct view, and to clear away objections to your view. It is like the approach of a physician—to remove what does not belong and to strengthen what does. Thus, for Buddhists, reasoning and debate are not ends in themselves or idle intellectual speculation. Rather, they are used as one path to spiritual wellness, taking practitioners closer to the health of liberation through these efforts to remove mistaken views and to understand and strengthen correct ones. Reading and memorization are not enough. Students must be able to verbalize their understanding and defend it under the pressure of cross-examination. This book teaches the basic analytical skills and procedures used in Buddhist debate. It is based on the author’s own practice and experiences gained in the debating courtyards of Tibetan monasteries in India and matured through years of leading popular university courses on the subject. Sample debate exchanges show readers how to get started with the Buddhist style of analytical thinking to challenge and defend assertions. Learning is supported by guided reflections, practical advice, and verbal exercises to be completed in practice with a partner. By the end of the course, readers will be able to engage in unscripted, full-fledged debates with a qualified partner about Buddhist characterizations and classifications of phenomena using the format and procedures of Buddhist debate. Moreover, these skills, once mastered, can then be applied to investigating the truth and falsity of views in any other subject. http://www.shambhala.com/books/buddhism/tibetan/a-course-in-buddhist-reasoning-and-debate.html www.shambhala.com/books/buddhism/tibetan/a-course-in-buddhist-reasoning-and-debate.html and only $79.95 (+ shipping)

I've led a very rough life myself MH but unlike Piaf I enjoyed it at the time and it led me down the Path to happiness.

Perhaps you should check out the Kodo drummers MH? I saw them at the South Bank complex in London the year that I met my wife - incredible experience that cannot possibly be matched even in large screen HD and surround sound. Anyway, I've just come across Zaz's 2013 album and I'm enjoying the variety. Some people compare her to Piaf but she comes across as a lot happier to me: - http://youtu.be/eVUEWLvIISs

Didn't you like the rest of the track then MH?

He's actually deteriorated considerably over the last decade. He seemed a lot happier 10 years ago. And, by the way Jetsun, the dropping of the attomic bomb on helpless civillians twice and the invasion of Iraq twice were expressions of the Truth. But you don't have to like those either.

I've seen Tony several times and I even went on one of hios retreats about ten years ago. I'm singularly unimpressed. This is someone who was (en)trained and "enlightened" by Tony: -

Hmmm.....given the evidence, either s/he's incompetent or you're unteachable.

Although after reading that, I can see that you're you're entirely competent in making fun of yourself and that you need no further help from me.

I hope not. I'm just making fun of you and Simple_Jack, so I hope that everyone's laughing as much as I am.

Don't expect anyone here to take you seriously ever again.

You do realise that you have to be at least 13 years old to join TTBs? I'm going to call your mummy and tell her that you're being rude to grownups on the internet again.

QED

You don't have a clue about Dzogchen and you shame yourself and the entire Dzogchen lineage Not for you Paul - you're clearly suffering.

steve is a longstanding member, former Moderator and a Buddhist who walks the walks - unlike you.

The certainty that I've seen comes from an indoctrination into a belief system based on a misinterpretation of what the Self-realised knew and taught from first-hand experience. The fact that it's merly a belief system manifests itself as a childish stupidity when challenged. And the penultimate sentence wasn't aimed at you; I find that you carry yourself with a considerable dignity.

I'm partial to whatever works and I've seen no evidence of that in contemporary Buddhism

It's my very carefully considered opinion that you wouldn't recognise a Master if s/he bit you on the arse (several times). Masters speak from their own direct knowledge. They don't need to parrot the words of those who were also speaking from Self-knowledge.

On more careful consideration, you may realise that it's you who has misunderstood my analogy and you'd certainly demonstrate more wisdon than you have to date by letting it go.

No. It's not a rope - it's obviously a snake.

Another dharma king who considers that TTBs are swine. Perhaps you would have been wiser to follow your own advice Paul instead of further illustrating the "wisdom" in your misunderstanding of Dzogchen.

Tony and I only go back about a decade. I attended several of his meetings and one of his retreats and I consider that he's spectacularly failed to integrate what he saw, as have all the neoadvaitins. The last time I saw Tony (in 2011), I took my youngest son (who knew and knows far more about advaita than Tony ever will) in order to show him living evidence of the pitfalls of the Path. He learned a great deal in that regard. My son was specifically refused discounted entry (he was about 15 at the time). Therefore, we will just have to agree to differ because my direct experierience is different.

Or perhaps we should let the referee have the last word: -

Take heart Apech Perhaps you can extract some small comfort from the last line of Vmarco's kiss of death