gatito

It's interesting that you find it entertaining and amusing - I just find it very sad

Although I had strong suspicions from a few encounters both online and in the "real" world, born-again buddhism's a religion that I'd never realised existed before seeing it raise its head so clearly on this thread. There seems to be no difference whatsoever between them and the born-again christians - just two sides of the same coin. On one side there are the die-hard atheists/dependent originators obsessed with suffering and nihilism on the other the die-hard theists/creationists obsessed with sin and redemption. Neither side is Happy - another good illustration of why the Middle Way works - if it's properly seen and properly implemented.

As I said earlier: - Goodbye, good luck and best wishes g

Go and have a think about what I've said and look-up sublation - or you can choose to stay here by yourself going around in ever-decreasing circles until things become so desperate for you that you're forced to consider another point of view. Remember, the only yardstick is Happiness (99% of the time can be regarded as Liberation )

Let me repeat myself: - You don't have to believe in anything - that's the whole point It's a complete non-issue - however, for you, it's your current sticking-point and you'll have to work through it or remain stuck here.

No.

You don't have to believe in anything - that's the whole point You, however have chosen to believe in your interpretation of small sections of Buddhism, which are there to unstick a particular sticking point during a process of self-inquiry. They are not there to be turned into a dognmatic belief system. Have you looked up sublation?

Good Now adopt that position with "a Creator" as an experiment for a few months and see what happens (e.g. do you become happier, do you receive any other confirmation during that time that it is a more intelligent choice). If it doesn't help, you can always return to being a fervent atheist Give it a fair go though

I'm not arguing for a Creator - the issue simply doesn't arise for me. The only helpful position for you to adopt would be that of agnostic but you have chosen atheism, which you'veclearly found to be as unhelpful as theism. You're stuck here and here you will remain until you make a more intelligent choice.

OK - feel free to adopt that belief - you'll find no Liberation there any more than you've found it in in the thousands of books that you appear to have read. Goodbye, good luck and best wishes g

Exactly However, what you fail to spot is that this scenario doesn't debunk a Creator

^^^ Ditto Although, bear in mind that some of us might like your Gospel of Thomas thread very much - or alternatively, some of us may be unable to make any intelligent contribution

Let me try a different approach:- You've set-up a fundamentally dualistic axiom (either:or) and assumed that premise represents the Truth and then you extrapolated from that false axiom using "mind" which is limited and dualistic (and also only a part of a universe which you yourself have also stated to be illusory). There are other possibilites (e.g. the Creator does not change but appears to cause change). If anyone is "screwed" here, it's actually you who is "screwed", because you're clearly speaking from the perspective of dualistic religion (belief system) rather than from a perspective of non-dualistic Knowledge (the Truth). Furthermore, you hope to obtain the Truth at a time other than the Present (i.e. in the bardo - from what you've said), so your perspective automatically admits to a time-bound viewpoint (again dual (dvaitic) rather than non-dual (advaitic). Finally, your perspective on this is unhelpful to yourself (as well as others) and you seem determined to maintain your position despite it bringing you no Happiness. In other words, you'd rather be "right" than Happy (i.e. subject to karma/suffering/death and rebirth etc. rather than Liberated/Unbound/Happy/at Peace/in sahaja samadhi etc.). So, ask yourself carefully whether you'd rather be "right" or you'd rather be Happy? And I'll give you something else that may help in your particular case (as well as others):- To make progress with advaitic self-inquiry it's usually helpful to grasp the concept of philosophical sublation

In your own illusory mind, certainly

Let's not be too sexist

So nobody managed to debunk a Creator and the thread's been moved from General Discussion to the Buddhist sub-forum. Double-whammy!!

I'm sure it did

You'd need to let go of trying to shoehorn everything into a medical model if you wanted to explore your experiences properly (that is assuming that you wish to explore your own experiences).

Yes, I've noticed that problem with made-up systems Chuck Surface's poetic views on this make interesting reading as well

I am indeed very happily married (to a Buddhist), however I think that's probably technically off-topic.

Many mainstream physicists/mathematicians consider that there's no inconsistency. However, it's important to distinguish religion (a belief system) from practical methods, which have spawned those belief systems.

Perhaps this is another typo and it should read: - "All you have done is state your opinion and then present another person who shares your opinion." ??????

OOPS! Typo! I meant John Levy - no "e" (author of The Nature of Man According to the Vedanta) PS I'm seriously interested in hearing from anyone who considers that they could sucessfully Debunk a Creator because, to date, I've been unable to find anyone who can.

John Levey was a Jew Anyway.......... Has anyone managed to debunk a creator yet? Hmmmm............thought not

Not one to put up at work though And forgive me if I've offended you, that was not my intent.