Master Logray

It is an excellent advice to @Tryingtodobetter . Taoism can be a place of death - or out of this world. Advance Taoists can spend 12 hours a day or more meditating. They confine themselves in a dark room, unable move, cannot think, cannot feel, cannot remember, no emotion, suffer from body pain..... Isn't it like death? Even when they are not meditating, they eat tasteless food or extreme fasting, refrain from having any emotion, minimize all engagements and activities, reading extremely boring and cryptic Taoist books, no sex. Isn't half dead? It doesn't include those hide in a cave. Taoist inner alchemy is a place to have a taste of death. Death is not interesting and never solve any problem when one steps out of the room again. But unfortunately Taoism is not good at dealing with psychological or emotional problems. As Damo Mitchel says, Taoist treats all emotions as pathogens, even if they are good ones. My advice would be to try a Chinese doctor. Some of the psychological issues might have a root from imbalance in organs. Treating the organs might alleviate some of the conditions. In the meantime, do not meditate. Do something physical, simple and repetitive like cleaning, before looking for a monastery.

According to an Ananda Mur Tiji, the internal training was first developed in the Himalayas region. Then it was spread south to India, taken up by Hindu and Buddhist. After that, it was spread to Tibet, Han Chinese region, finally to Siberia and Mongolia. This kind of skill was named Tan-tra, and related names subsequently. Even the name Tao has its root from Tantra like Vira-Cafa, Cina-cara, Dhyana etc. There were also great persons who traveled to the other countries to learn or enrich their path over the years. So you can see a lot of similarities as all these internal practices have a common root.

Those systems are from the past. Nowadays most people incline forward to read, watch or talk. So the abdomen muscles are more important.

A theory is that pure vegetarian can only be practised and enforced in a temple environment. While those wandering Taoists need to adapt to the environment.

Your examples are more established/organized groups. Taoist denominations are decentralized, and can mix and merge with each other. Philosophers worship the same gods as religious, religious also doing inner alchemy, philosopher can know Feng Shui. Classifying perhaps is western trait, but not seeing eye to eye with each other is Chinese trait, if not universal. Arguments exist. My point is, don't be misled by the classification as if they are firm establishments. The situation is rather fluid.

The west only catches on part of the DaoJia, Daojiao argument . Such controversy was in China for 50-100 years. One thing to note is all the DaoJia people also worship the same gods in the same manner, go to the same temple as DaoJiao people. Regarding altar, it is common to have altar of gods and goddess statues, incenses and offerings in almost every home in Chinese communities.

This guy stands on uneven ground, better avoid.

It is a chicken and egg problem. Passions and sex drives can be dealt with by stilling the mind. But stilling the mind needs to deal with passions and sex drives.

This kind of videos always look ludicrous. But they are a rather misrepresented demonstration of skills, intentionally or not. My teacher says such can only work between teachers and students, not with outsiders. The performance is actually using the centre of gravity to throw off opponents. A person can do it without any Chikung background, and it is not exactly a fajin. Using Chi and fajin combined with such CG moves can enhance the damage. But don't think this skill is easy. The theory can be learned within weeks. Using it could take more time than generating Chi. The skill requires long term training of "listening" i.e. knowing, anticipating, devising counter measures and respond in split second.

It is a very good point. Alchemy does not do fajin. They may or may not be able to do it, but generally regard this as a deviation that should not be indulged in. Originally there was only Neidan - the alchemy process, and neigong - the inner body strengthening methods. The term of Chikung was also used loosely for moving exercises and sitting poses. In 1956 the China government lift the ban on Chinese Medicine and standardized the term QiGong (Romanized spelling of Chikung). QiGong refers to everything from Neidan, Neigong, some martial arts practices, and in many circumstances encompass so called western psychic activities or even hypnosis or fortune telling. Since these exercises are quite interrelated and in fact belong to a big family, as #cleansox says, differentiating something as Qigong or Neidan can be misleading and meaningless. It is better use the time and effort to train yourself up.

It is the first time I read someone " achieved enlightenment many years ago from southern doaism ", congrat Tombajo! Actually how it feels? Coming back to different Taoist paths, it is not only the north and the south. There are the central and the west. And even a hermit path. If you really have achieved a high level, you know it is not prudent to shift to another inner system. There are dangers.

Is it due to your school is more on the letting the Chi run its course style (dig trench metaphor)? Those micro-management styles require more personal direct guidance?

What do you think of people doing MCO without regular human guidance?

The name "dissolving meditation" sounds like a technique than a system, more like a tool than for long term progress. The tool type method should be discontinued once the purpose is achieved or proved not working.

Chi is an universal phenomenon. It can accumulate with or without Chikung/NeiGung/NeiDaan. There are other ways like Confucianism, by outward behaviour and personal management. Normal sports also build Chi. Perhaps not basketball, but walking, swimming surely do. Others include Chinese calligraphy, painting, music, religious activities like chanting, even helping others. The Taoist way is the better way, more efficient and effective, because it directly works on Chi itself. It is a full system, taking into account building Chi, preventing loss, fast accumulation, avoidance of sidetracked.

Still interested in this question? There are 2 theories. Each supported by well-known masters. The storing Chi in LDT is the more common. Another thinking is man is like a balloon, Chi permeates everywhere. As to whether Chi is over-accumulated in one area and becomes sluggish and lead to problems, Damo Mitchell says it can be dangerous. My view is it depends. For 20+ young male, their Chi would be strong, but they probably spend a lot on all activities or unhealthy lifestyles. And they are physically active. So Chi runs around even without internal training. For older or weak persons, Chi is never sufficient, there would be no accumulation whatsoever. Chi stagnancy is another issue.

It affects external arts more. Foreigners who go to China to learn martial arts must follow the standard national programmes and styles. These have no combat value, only for performance and competition, may not even good for health and sometimes dangerous as there are some acrobatic moves. Taichi used to be around 88-119 moves. It is why the moving meditation term comes about. But it is simplified to 24 moves, even have 8/12/24/36/48 moves. China's researchers themselves say the 24 moves is not conducive to health as the traditional long style.

The flaw is with the culture. It is common to have students toil for many years without real progress for Chinese arts and martial arts. In China it is more difficult to change your master too, even for today. Somehow this part is not "simplified for westerner".

Blind - 40% Inept - 40% Seeker - 18% Liberated - 2%

It is relevant because there is another thread about whether Laozhi is a real person or not. Indeed many old paintings show a buffalo instead of an ox. This is curious. Firstly, Laozhi was a northern Chinese, currently the northern or even central China is quite dry, unsuitable for water buffalo. 2000 years ago, that area might be more green, and become semi-arid due to climate change or centuries of Chinese deforest and overpopulated, war and so on. So there is a question mark. There are 3 types of paintings, with green ox, yellow ox and buffalo. Colors of the animal could symbolize something too. As to who was Laozhi, there were arguments as early as 2000 years ago.

The higher being theory is correct. But we never know what other spirits already lurking around @thelerner. The normal thinking is that he may have wronged somebody, this life or previous. But his Yang's is so strong that he is immune now. Opening a channel could be a problem for some people. ZFG is no more spiritual, indeed, it is what the others choose to interpret those kinds of reactions that is a problem.

I am not sure Yang Shen is a necessary part in all the paths in different transformations. Any idea? The problem for immortals' immortality arise out of definition. If the definition of Immortals is "a class of beings" that live very long and possess super powers, then any length is possible. Animals like fox and turtle can train on their own, so they can have few thousand years. Would trees transform? Rocks/Quartz? However, if Immortals are defined as "human" that goes through the Taoist or pre-Taoist system to achieve very long life span and possess powers, then the longest life would not exceed history of Taoism itself. If all Taoist immortal accounts are true, most of them would not be over 1000 years.

This is too far. The earliest immortal Pang Jo, was only 800 years old. Laozhi, if still lives, is roughly 2500 years old. This is impressive for humans. But the earth still has a few billion years' life. Immortal is a relative term.

Spiritual immortality is a interesting term. Spirits are supposed to be more of less immortal? I think the body/spirit immortality is a matter of choice and capabilities. Taoists, based on their objectives and body conditions, may choose different transformations. For example, a 90 years old Taoist, with a failing body, would likely prefer a spiritual way, or simply reincarnate to be in a better situation. A 50 years old may opt for staying alive very long to complete the process. A 20 years old, will not pursue Tao, though he is ideal for body transformation.

I cannot think of a better word than "Immortal" too. The "Spiritual Foetus" has a philosophical problem. Let say a person develops it, so does it mean there are 2 of him? What happens if the body is dead, then the person is dead or not? A dead body means no immortality and a person's spirit is believed to be still exist for a long time. So what is the difference with normal person? a normal consciousness or higher power in spiritual form? According to folklore, most of the immortals "liberated by corpse" when they leave the world. Only a handful turned into immortals with bodies - outright transformation. It seems to be much more difficult. There is another scenario whereby an immortal can vaporize and resemble into human form.