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Stosh
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Everything posted by Stosh
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It was.
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As the great Roman philosopher Bolonius once wrote,, Vidi vici quod erat demonstrandum, ipso facto est veritas!
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Is reincarnation or afterlife spoken about in any Taoist texts?
Stosh replied to Drifting_Through_Infinity's topic in Daoist Textual Studies
Great size and weight of branches, tends to hasten the demise of a tree,. limbs break , trunks split , rot sets in. Bonsai or a pollard can often outlive wild forms. -
Right,, the point is , that you've got to make the assertive case for your idea,,, before requiring me to disprove it.
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Hey,,, if they have a latin term for it .. I can use it.
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Because that would be silly. reductio ad absurdum
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Ah, I consider it the reasonable-unavoidable conclusion which one considers fact, BUT,, I realize that other people may not weigh things the way I do and so ,( since on a small local scale events do seem to just Happen around us with an element of unpredictability ), it would also be OK to classify it as 'feeling' . ... but I consider it fact on larger scale since the universe isnt singling US out to have rain on our head
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Did I unintentionally mirror someone? or is that a close modification. I always did figure we werent that far apart in opinion yknow.
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The universe is overall neutral, and concludably ' universally good ' in its being non-chaotic . People though , may fairly be considered harsh Or nice , because they act with intent and have a bias. Events happen , and though you certainly have input regarding your experiences on earth , I personally conclude that complete control of ones reality isn't in the cards. To the extent that you do gain control over your attitudes and externals, ,, I think you should give yourself a hearty pat on the back, and figure its well worth the effort. Trick is , its not always apparent how and what exactly , one needs to adjust more , ... the comfy chair , or ones arse.
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Good ! Background is ,that we've argued that very thing plenty in the past,, and that includes some very knowledgeable and invested people,, just as much as folks of casual or tangential interest. You , though you may not come from China etc, still have aspects of this thing that you enjoy , or believe etc etc. IF its a real thing and Not just some ancient quirky traditional BS , then the truths apply to anyone anywhere! and ....what you get out of it , is exactly what it is to You. The Christian, Muslim , Jew ,, whatever,, who follows the rules of that faith ,but who doesnt really embrace any of it , is the BS artist. Not the person who is genuine about their thing. But trying to explain this sort of thing to people who have their heels dug in , who have their beliefs and emotions wrapped up in other ,, faiths or traditions , is a waste of time. You'd likely end up finding yourself either having to invalidate them or being invalidated by them. So my advice just bypasses really getting in to it all, its still true , and if they really are open to other ideas, they can be more specific. If they go that route , feel free to share what you know and love about it, just don't fit your answers to the expectations they probably have and be sincere. such as ,, ummm "I love the Tai chi, but dont really get some of the other stuff yet,, Ill tell you about it when I get to that point. If they take that as an opportunity to dump on you , You can follow with ," Well ,,I like it, You dont need to. "
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Tell them you don't know what it is either.
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For some enlightenment takes many lifetimes. For others , Not so much
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check out the date.
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Unfortunately. And then we ask why THAT is , and ....., you end up with philosophy,.. to reconcile the fabrications with the soul.
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I'm thinking that always was the Tao thing, that upon concluding that the basis of humanity is actually good, its perfectly feasible to do just what you suggest right there. However , this reminds me of that ( very funny) youtube video , which rhetorically asked , 'What good is being spiritual if no one knows it?'
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Ok , thats fine for you. Thing for me is that, already being familiar with the dualistic- mind- set- based approach to life .. I think its got some serious drawbacks. When I or someone else ends up banging their head against some intractable philosophical issue , Im thinking its usually because one hasn't actually opened up to these other ideas. The price of new thinking is ,, the old thinking. Which,, many certainly prefer to hold on to, because they have a whole value set incorporating dualism. Frankly I think the term dualism isnt great ,but the language is what it is.
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Are you asking me if your life has been useful? or ,,if anyones life has been, to them? I'm thinking that the question is odd , theres no way to ask that correctly, or answer it correctly ...was ones life of use to them , or did it do them no good ,, did they use their life to some other purpose ... since Im coming from the angle that such an idea really isnt ummm legit when youre talking about ones life in its entirety including our desires goals etc. I suppose you could say I use my life but that it has no purpose to any greater thing so you could say its useless. On the other view , you could say its been useful to itself. And that's the stand I was taking. If I had a purpose or use , and I could fail it.. my own usefulness to me wouldn't be the point of me , in the larger view. So my useless life is useful to me because of its uselessness to the greater thing. Someone else cant literally use my life to do their own living, so to them my living could be considered useless. Therefore the useless is or is not useful depending on perspective, , defining it as subjective valuation. Obviously in normal conversation though the two states are in opposition to one another. Right?... But perhaps it could be said that if a life has a use to anyone its not having no use to anyone, and therefore its always has use. Which doesnt really work the other way around.
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We are the creators of need, the definers of it. And define our needs by our goals. Facts are just facts. You need air to live, but the unverse doesnt demand you live.
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IMO, theres just no such thing as an objective assessment of that. Subjectively though, Id like to think that we have served our own standard of that well. The big oak did its thing, as does the seed and hopefully they each felt satisfied, left it all on the table, so to speak. It could be argued that the oak is just a manifestation of the greater whole and dividing that whole into different trees isnt actually valid. I think its not, but I still understand how this perception seems untrue from the traditional perspective. The other standard view conceives purpose and therefore failure,. Usefulness and uselessness. etc.
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Im thinking this is lamenting the lack of a god to point to , a reason to exist , some larger cause to be aligned with. Angst regarding the failure of these concepts. Wouldn't it be nice is we could point to an ultimate cause, or ultimate mover? That we knew why we were here and what we had to do? That we could rightly judge ourselves as good , important ,valuable? That's what its lamenting, people seem to die without import , that all we are trying to do ultimately fails to make a lasting difference , that our pains appear pointless. Its seems easier to handle these things, death ,pain , misfortune , if we can at least attribute some good to it. To believe that it wasn't all for nothing. In the face of this balm, its normal to maintain the standard attitudes on identity, gods , and social good. Its like sighing how it would be nice if life itself came with a handbook.
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The " enough" thing is a rejection of the self imposed dissatisfaction and restrictions. The person balks , rejecting the addition of fuel to the fire, making it worse. Driving ones-self to dissatisfaction with more grasping. Yes , snapping himself out of his own confused flailings.
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Though we have our innate characters (or nature) ,but we are on a stage in which those either play part , or lie dormant. Similar to a fly which lands on a wall , and just sits there , waiting for the stimulation of being out of harmony with its surroundings. It is dormant , its like its not even a living thing, , like ashes. But whether its something nearby which changes, or its own biology which shifts, eventually this pile of ashes takes to the air in search of a pile. What eventually makes the fly move is perhaps different from what moves a person to drive a car to the supermarket. The mind of a person has internal things going on which , don't have anything to do with the immediate physical environment, and may be somewhat particular to ourselves. What need is there for something else to stimulate them?" Our ever changing circumstances are enough to give us reason to move , as someone else may have put it.. basically everything you do is from suffering a state of disharmony with what is. The whole world is burning.
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Its just my opinion, but , I don't think there IS anywhere to go with this story. Its very straight-forward. It presents an example of the virtuous person. He isn't ambitious or trying to force the world to his own mold. He accepts how it actually is, to the degree that he can't see how it could be otherwise. Rejecting or not having , illusory ideas and values which we often superimpose on the real world he hasn't created fake requirements, or have expectations , other than what will indeed happen. Ex: He cant be sad about loss or failure , since his ownership and goals would be illusions he never had. He or she takes world for what it is , but even then, not having the mental structures to incorporate the events seriously, (because its importance is opinion too). The experiences are stripped of meaning.
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Is reincarnation or afterlife spoken about in any Taoist texts?
Stosh replied to Drifting_Through_Infinity's topic in Daoist Textual Studies
Some feel the texts do suggest reincarnation occurs. Personally I think that line would mean that one hasnt left life undone, no regrets , and embraces the peace ,,the end of tribulation ,,it represents. Whether at a crazy party, or in a fray, or well worn with age, one might be ready to go home an put their feet up.- 6 replies
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- reincarnation
- afterlife
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All things agree that what is, is how it is,, otherwise said, they all have to deal with reality despite the whims of their own nature. Tao being impartial, serves as a guide to all, its rules cannot be defied, so a good solid govt should not legislate morality, but provide opportunity and control, thats it.