Stosh

No, but its cool.

If I overlooked a post I apologise, I try to respond to anything addressed directly to me, that was rude of me, sorry.

oh, and I should add that geneticists say that a human male has more in common with a male chimpanzee, than to a human female. Most laymen agree without upset.

That far back Mh, things really are very speculative, while lipid layers and other microstructures do form spontaneously, it certainly does seem almost surmountable that the first cells could come together. That is probably very rare, and since complex molecules can come in with cometary debris, the origins of our life may come from elsewhere. That being said, the overwhelming genetic similarities of all life found here, suggests that once a winner was estabished, there were no other lines. Though that winner might actually be an amalgam of two or three life form originators,, ex mitochondria vs host cell.vs platelet. That you and I have much in common with a bacterium or banana biochemically is staggering low odds if we arent related directly, somehow. Though I should add that in oddball places ,competitors may lurk still. A creator at the genus or species level, really wouldnt have any reason to try to play a trick on us, and could just make things each uniquely. I dont know how much of this is lay info, much of it wasnt required reading for me, so if you know it already please excuse my redundancy.

I think it would be edifying, edificational,, whatever, especially if you know some of the particulars about the folks that made it down under. /... the aquatic ape hypothesis has been around a while ,http://www.primitivism.com/aquatic-ape.htm I like it , it seems very reasonable to me, though most of it regards time quite a while before the first got to Aust that doesnt mean it doesnt still hold validity for them. Pre- dream time? Do we really have to debunk aliens and the early hominids ?or can we just skip to pre-history peoples. Or if you really want to do hominids , What about em? Just watched the clip , questions , Bunjalung is Australian aborigine? correct? what do the call themselves (as opposed to whites) or do they not make that distinction? Is he holding a long functional boomerang? Did they ever hunt whales as some other coastal peoples did? Their history doesnt go back before arriving in Austr. ? or is that entirely forgotten? ......and yes it is almost a spooky coincidence that at least some consider whales as ancestors. In Africa I was thinking along the shores of lake Chad , Rift valley lakes , Congo river etc. And I personallly am not asserting that humans lived like mermaids or had gills, or even were marine, no We still cant abide the salt water ( can drink 1/3 brackish) or even soak in water for days , but that doesnt mean one of our ancestral lineages didnt spend the majority of time wading splashing hunting , in and around water , enough so that physically there were heritable differences. The hominid line has had various offshoots which part , evolve , and merge back into the larger population, this is a more recent mindset gathering steam of late , and most focus on Neanderthalensis , Denisova , Florensis hybridizing back into Sapiens line. But the greatest genetic diversity actually traces back to Africa suggesting that this was the earliest experimental cradle and meltingpot. It is said that humans were never really a populous species , but if you drop the population too low, and too far apart the species loses its genetic viability , where was everybody ? they were on lakes rivers and beaches where remains do not preserve often. Water features dry up and we walked somewhere else. Like Snail Kites which really just eat snails , when water conditions are poor somewhere they just rotate to other large lakes. The movement isnt aimless wandering , like some people envision for hominids on a savanna. I dont know why anyone thinks this is really what was going on , it seems funny to me , that humans just kind of strolled around through the territories of lions and stuff. No , we had a niche , one that was difficult for many creatures to survive in , and it was there out in these difficult spots with challenging and varied food sources that we had any chance of living without getting eaten. For instance , we can eat plums, nuts , seaweed , shellfish, chocolate , onions , oregano , tomatoes , oranges , as well as catch , fish ,snakes porcupines, turtles, eggs ,cactus fruit ,,, and a whole host of crap that most animals would find toxic or impossible to harvest all of. ( some- but not all) Thats why our capabilities are , yes, all terrain, but no , not on par with gazelles and lions ON equal terms with them. We lived where leopards and hyenas couldnt persist over time, or didnt have the all the advantages they would on dry ground.

We already covered that segment ,,, aliens.

Should I take it that no one is actually up to discussing the actual origins of mankind ? That would be ironic.

Yeah , I hadnt considered that ,,,umm spiritual aspect,,but it fits. The physical adaptations to a niche may be subtle, like that of turtles, but its essential that those modifications fit together as a system , like for turtles. Theyre all very much alike, but some live in the sea , some in desert , some lakes and rivers. I think WE were probably on the margins of rivers and lakes and in marshes,, which are pretty dangerous places , but they supply food we can catch , afford protections we can employ , nutrients we need. And Right up to the modern era, humans center in on and around large bodies of water, and the high protein food ,with largely poly unsaturated fats and low carb nature , which affords us the best health and a quantitatively feasible caloric supply . I figure the only reason why this isnt so widely embraced is that the places where they find human remains are NOW dry riverbeds and lake shores. We were going to the sea eventually , like whales , seals , and bears did , etc,,,

Obviously humans are evolved to be basically aquatic , but we got THERE...... dunno.

Why dodge such an easy obvious question ? Ummm cause you see it is going to trash your case?

"Most likely, the south of Western Siberia was a refúgium, where this rhino persevered the longest in comparison with the rest of its range," said one of the team, Andrey Shpanski.

Karl ,, Didn't you ever watch Miracle on 34th Street? Ok fine , In the realm of courtroom jargon , asked by an attorney , under oath , I would say I do not believe its possible that aliens had anything whatsoever to do with building the Egyptian pyramids. Now ... The opposing attorney has you on the stand and asks, IF an alien spacecraft landed directly in front of you , and a grey guy with giant eyes emerged hovering above the ground , Would you consider that it was possible that you had indeed been presumptuous in your declaring the impossibility of extra-terrestrial contact?

I'm not being agnostic , what one considers 'proof' is always a somewhat subjective standard, What exactly it is, that one considers proof, is variable. Thats what the CTMU is hoping to address. The guy with the highest IQ in the world appears to be in agreement with this ,,, Oh OK ! agnosticism ,, for lack of a better term For instance the rope roller, and wrought iron tools , which really dominate the feasibility aspect of the earlier described methodology , really isnt an open and shut case. They haven't actually found a roller associated with the pyramid itself , and haven't found a steel chisel either. Im not blaming anyone , I'm just saying they haven't got solid proof of methodology. Leaving things more judgement based. Neither does the copper residue in what appears saw marks confirm the methodology of wedges , neither does the heating and quenching and pounding methodology of the giant unfinished obelisk appear to confirm the same methodology. True, this all is really unfairly placing the burden of all the proving, on the side of the the anti-alien crowd. So what ? ,,any gain to be got is going to come from the revelations in that quarter anyway. Personally I figure , that when we are acting primitive, we smash the ants for no reason , when we are acting wiser , we just leave them alone ,, the advanced civilization , might likely be expected to do the same , and therefore , kindly , just leave us ant-humans alone to build our mounds. ( which coincidentally fits fine with Steves thing, because if we do interact with them , it will be to smash us like bugs)

I say I am certain , my default is also is to not entertain the alien things. BUT My certainty is just sentiment , thats all certainty ever is ,, (until Mr Langan finishes his CTMU mission) though I will still contend that its fact as best I can discern. Because , I expect some positive proof of a theory before I am willing to give it a fair shake, something that pushes my opinion in that direction , and is not just based on how cool , mysterious , and heartening it might be. Ill leave the formal versions logics arguments to others . like Einstein did.

Space.com This week, famed physicist Stephen Hawking helped launch a major new effort to search for signs of intelligent alien life in the cosmos, even though he thinks it's likely that such creatures would try to destroy humanity. Since at least 2010, Hawking has spoken publicly about his fears that an advanced alien civilization would have no problem wiping out the human race the way a human might wipe out a colony of ants. At the media event announcing the new project, he noted that human beings have a terrible history of mistreating, and even massacring, other human cultures that are less technologically advanced — why would an alien civilization be any different? - See more at: http://www.space.com/29999-stephen-hawking-intelligent-alien-life-danger.html#sthash.68OGuUKf.dpuf

Nungali, Time is a very important factor. water can erode a rock, but it takes a long time, just pouring it on. Chain saws made a huge difference in the processing of lumber. I think its quite fair to expect your tools to do the job in under a century.You indicated that these were the tools that proved aliens werent required to build the pyramids. Something about these tools should indicate that capacity. A picture of a waterskin wouldnt suffice, whether they used them or not. , The learners guy, doesnt have direct proof of required wrought iron tools used in the required capacity, and considering the iron was more valued than gold, Id speculate it wasnt used so much, but in just exempting that one shortfall, the logistics and technology appear to at least obviate an extraterrestrial agent. His big game changer is the rope roll, again he doesnt have much proof that it was used other than it would work.. supposedly. Besides, Im already familiar with the employees barracks, and sledges and so forth, which aliens dont need.

Well done ,if all this checks out.. full total 6700 men , I think you may spike the football and dance around the goal posts.

Theres no such thing as objective government, which is made of biased people,, nor actual liberty for that matter,since we live in a finite amd constrained situation , nor does forceless prevention of the initialization of force work universally ,because reward for negative behavior encourages the undesirable behavior rather than satisfy it. So you will always see force initiated, the issue becomes whether one feels force justified or not , thats a Moral decision. Drop the morality, justification disappears, and there is only that which occurs ,to stir the pot. Negotiation can happen , The people could benefit a hundredfold. Its just not human nature to those socialized as we are, to A , dispense with justifications ,,B abandon our individual self concern for the good of society all the time. It only works on small scale, in tight knit groups that highly value all the other members. You can have the last word if you want. I can leave off there.

Karl, Evicting people or withholding stuff are still means of force ,as is the use of police. Did the big railroad barons succeed by being fair traders ,or exploitative? how about slavers ,slum lords and drug barons? Union bosses mobsters terrorists and corrupt officials ? There needs to be oversight for the public welfare ,and the use of just force for the majority to prosper.

Those carbide tipped iron tools are the result of a whole technology, far more sophisticated than hacking rocks , to entertain that logically, Im thinking one needs some independent proof of that. Use of iron doesnt alone indicate that the iron was up to the task. Simpler would be to seive and separate sand down to its hardest components,for abrasives , which would happen anyway during some grinding procedures. Stones such as diorite and granite and basalt do vary somewhat in constituency, and hardness, so Im thinking one could theoretically work diorite with diorite, youd wear the tools down fast , but youd be using waste.That should be easily proven with the stone hammer. Im thinking that for the larger blocks splitting with wedges and pounding flat would go fastest, but one could also picture an abrading pendulum rope or even a wheel,, question still remains if it can be done fast enough to make millions of the things. Holding the alien visitor fans to the same level of scrutiny , ya gotta give positive evidence of the means used and I dont think that has been supplied.

Its sounding a bit like a vision of Utopia, I agee ,ideally speaking, a lot of that would make sense and be nice,, Im just saying that as things stand, force is the only means we know of to set that up, and force will still be required to maintain it unless every single person is on the same page. And we havent even addressed the mentally ill.

I dont what any of that is saying though. What power, what masters and what are they considering intelligence. All you say might be true, but even if it is, I dont know that the chosen ones would suit the challenge, or suit it in a way I approve of , or if they might even decide to mind their own business.

Karl, I thought I was just trying to push your buttons ,so that the reflexive gut check, confirmed that the noninterference directive doesnt work unless all agree. And we just dont. as soon as you set moral standards for society ,compulsion becomes mandatory. Laissez faire Capitalism had its day, just as the hippie generation did, but the cold facts were that unrestricted behavior has societal and personal drawbacks. We live in a world where forces are everywhere, and have only the freedom that leash affords. The bar requires a bouncer or worse situations would follow. Tiny groups of people may embrace a code ,and be harmonious,, just not whole societies. Confucian by day Taoist by night.... Give me a big enough lever and a place to stand,, and I will move the earth.

I guestimate that Gautama was probably quite exceptional, but I know even less that his teachings have survived understood. Hed have to litterally show up at my door and convince me of certain things. Id be willing to listen. Until then ,the rest of us need some kind of viable method that we believe. I and anyone else ,are limited by what we can afford to entertain, if info just totally destroys our worldview, we are devastated, so we fight to not have that happen.... daily.

Its really pretty simple Karl, all you have to do, is willingly obey me. Then you can keep your hands clean, not need to pluck out your eye, and I wont need to force you. , But should you choose to stand up to me, then you need to poke out your own eyes.