Stosh

That yin yang thing , I wish it was never developed. Restive means restless-by the way I think you mean restful.

I figure anyone is going to have affinity for particular translations , the ones that LEAST REQUIRE one to bend away from ideas they already hold. Since when is yin and yang a polemic opposing physical and spiritual? I've never heard anyone conclude that before.

Legge's translation ? .. "Who knows his manhood's strength, Yet still his female feebleness maintains; Well this here may be someones opinion , or , it may the very best of literal translations ,or it may be someones addition , but regardless, it doesn't make sense to tell someone to be or act feeble and at the same time to say its not a strength ,and also at the same time declare its virtue. Basically its a confused sentiment IMO. If the person saying full or empty , was supposed to be confused , or if its just the translator , I dunno. It doesn't matter. I figure you get the point either way. Liu Quixuan "One keeps weakness while knowing what strength is, And serves as the humblest brook for the world. Being the humblest, one can receive best Until one returns to be the weakest infant. One keeps black while knowing what white is, And serves as a basic model for the world. Regardless of the means that the expressions are translated , the basic relationship is preserved , that the Yang stuff considered polemically a virtue normally ,, can also be seen as a problem and the Yin stuff can also be seen as virtue as well. The Subjective opinions folks have about virtue , lies in our heads , therefore they arent real objectively speaking. Being bigger may be seen as better , but a big ant wouldnt be able to hold itself up on those skinny legs , likewise a teeny lion wouldnt be able to kill food ,, presumably. If Circumstance defines what traits would stand as virtue , then one is simply being practical , wise etc It seems to go by the boards that the logic , is inverse to the Norm , and that there is a Norm , which goes without saying. Ex . being strong is good. Duh ! Being smart is helpful, Duh ! But here's some guys saying being strong is weakness , being stupid is helpful .. and this is wise ! If the Duh statements were wise , then the inverse of them , should be considered idiotic. BUT thats not the case.,, apparently. The argument is being made that that which we consider virtue normally , is just subjective opinion, though they are taking a polemic stance about which to pick.

I forgot my password , and the phone forgot ,Ill reset it ,,, so , no rush.

I enjoy that , candid-ness? too , ( seems tolerant and humble to me, like joking with the audience,, perhaps ironic , that he isnt pinned down to even his own description ) Nah , nothing there I want to get involved with though , its umm above my pay grade.

“Therefore come with me to the land of Nowhere where all the many things are One. There at last we might speak of what has no limitation and no end. Come with me to the land of Non-Doing. Consequently, he who wants to have right without wrong, order without disorder, does not understand the principles of Heaven and Earth. He does not know how things hang together. Can a man cling only to Heaven and know nothing of Earth? They are correlative. To know one is to know the other. To refuse one is to refuse both. Can a man cling to the positive without any negative? If he claims to do so he is a rogue or a madman. This here ah, this here is grist for the mill !

( reasons for my post being as such) I am unable to answer that question. All I can say is that Chuang Tzu did search for answers to the questions common people had. Lao Tzu spoke to the person who would rule the world. That is why I have said before that I really couldn't get a handle on Taoist Philosophy until after I read the Chuang Tzu. Sure, Chuang Tzu knew there was nothing missing. But he searched to understand and share his understanding through made-up stories that represented real life. Lao Tzu's life wasn't real to me. We should also remember that Wang Bi really introduces the 'mystery' and metaphysical aspects much more than any previous interpreter. Lest we forget, he was a very young Confucian “We have a little time today,” said the disciple to the Sage. “May I ask what is the great Tao?” The Sage replied, “Give a ceremonial bath to your mind! Cleanse your soul! Throw away your material wisdom! Tao is dark and elusive, impossible to describe. However, I will outline it for you.

Great , that's out of the way.

No , help needed, IMO . Unless you don't like the consequences that do happen... It takes care of itself,,, pay as U go.

There is truth, that's for sure , its just your opinions on it which are speculative. Hit your head in a darkened cave , and it never mattered whether you didn't see the low ceiling or didnt suspect it. Yell harsh things at rough people , and you may end up with a fat lip. Wool shirts are itchy. Etc

I think they're hoarding peaches.

Bump

If I may hop back in here, agreed, there is no single solution,, any life one lives is actually a 'valid' response to the situations one faces. One is what they are, whatever that is , and does what one does ,,,, whatever one is. Yes its speaking rhetorically or circularly or something to verbalize this.. But theres a caveat ,, one does set goals , has desires , fears etc,((, some of these things have been handed down or communicated to us ,, from parents, teachers ,community etc ,, and then theres things which one truly originates)). And the world presents itself to us in whichever way it happens to BE. The combination of your goals , and the obstacles ,and the possibilities,, define what would be advantageous to do, in meeting those goals. The worlds your oyster ,, but it has a hard shell -that needs to be dealt with regardless of ones whims. We think it would be so wonderful , if the pearls fell from the sky ,, but you'd have nothing to do , you'd get bored , and you'd start looking for shells.

Sorry I missed this first time round ... Maybe you may see some of these responses, as I do , as telling you that you just need to " stop being X " . As if that was intuitively what you would do. It apparently isnt , and if you really have a disorder it just isnt showing you a path to getting 'there' by telling you how much more tough someone else is. I figure thats just feeding into a false idea perpetuating the anxiety you've already got! I think any potential 'self improvement' implied by taoism isnt gotten by staring at the dark side of your eyelids. It should be clear that those who do meditate may still be just as 'flawed' as anyone else. Moreover I would hope that you could choose from among offered solutions , the one that seems to work best. Then you gotta execute that solution. I say , that either defensive aggression , or true humility offers a passable antidote (or at least mitigates things) . True Humility not in terms of being a doormat , but in terms of accepting that not only you are fumbling through life , but everyone else is as well. For instance , someone gives me a negative look, well if I know that I just did something they dont like or dont approve of , but I screw up every few minutes , just like they do. People are often misled confused obnoxious angry at themselves etc. its simply the best folks can be ! They dont want to be screwed up , but they havent got all the answers either. Generally speaking , everyone , IMO, thinks they have THE BEST recipe for being a human, under the circumstances they see, . No matter how poorly this sets them up. Any resolutions are going to revolve around having sound reasons to adjust ones ATTITUDE in a way which is not beating yourself up,, , nor excusing anything nor getting all hostile and brash. It is true though , most people dont give a crap about anyone else , except in the light of whether it validates them or affects potential events which affect them. People reserve real consideration to close family or friends because the general public doesnt reciprocate. I doesnt matter how much you try to be liked , try to do things which you think theyd like etc , they are still preoccupied with themselves foremost ( quite reasonably since they are struggling too) , and only occasionally extend beyond themselves when they feel safe with that - if indeed at all ! If you DO extend beyond yourself when you dont feel safe , youre essentially asking for a pie in the face.. you will learn not to trust your own judgement, you will expect rejection ,, and then youre really screwed. Dig out of it , keep intimate things for the appropriate people, knowing everyone is faulty. Do act conventionally but find your joys as well. Thats all IMO of course , though I think its sound.

Ive No real disagreement with that , except for a minor issue , revolving around whether folks are taught- duty obligation sharing or greed or fairness - outright ,,,, or if these attitudes are rather outgrowths of our innate needs- propensities ,,which may get redirected -hijacked etc. In short ,,,The ol' nature nurture debate. Rational selfishness ,, that theres a wiggly can of worms,,,, my resolution regarding it is that if one includes others as extensions of oneself self in some manner , it can work quite well, but if one arrives at the social conclusion , that oneself is good , and others are not ,, you'd have promoted classic dehumanization ,,, precursor to all the most horrible aspects of human interaction.

Thanks, I'm thinking this may be of help to the OP to consider , its much clearer , and suggests on its own , how a person can look at their own vulnerability. Denial , doesn't work well , because one still is still being pushed around by their protected sentiments. This may even be healthy true humility you've expressed ,, though I realize that to the ordinary view it may not look like such. I'm thinking ,To be fully aware of ones soft underbelly and not be moved to defend it , makes for tougher skin and more freedom. Nuff said.

" We can all break the social conditioning. " Sorry Karl, the fact is we , including you and everyone else who posted, cant and dont ,, unless youre some kind of sociopath,, You can be insulted or ashamed , lose face , be invalidated , be validated and so forth....... thats the point I am trying to defeat. The title says ' Caring too much ', and that is a correct slant , you will and do care some , its just that most folks employ defenses, both before and after the fact ,, to be unafraid of , the social censure that they might expect to endure... and then pretend they have no concerns. ( which strikes me as ridiculously self delusional). Think on it a bit more Karl , just take a look at it as if it was possible I was right, and report back . Just look at Nungali there , presenting his persona and tell me it isnt obvious he cares a great deal about how he is perceived.. he just wants to look tough , bad ass etc . I call BS

Well Karl ,though I very much like that which you said in the earlier post ,but it needs this extra explaining,as in post 20..but I dont know that One is pretending his virtue, it may be entirely genuine. We ALL have already been socialized. But he does have anxiety, which may need some thorough attention ,,, Conversely Im full aware of some who want to boast , and pretend perfection , with the idea that perfection includes not giving a shit about animals or the environment or other people,, etc, ( Im truly not talking about you , or anyone you know ,, by the way)

I believe the sincerity of the responses I see, I just wonder if things really work out the way described, while one can try to be entirely independent of other peoples thinking , I dont think it actually happens. The clothes one wears , the appearance of your home and type of car , and whether you wash the car, and the kind of language you use and the level of tact one employs, etc etc, to me all seem to point to modifications of -and to- other folks views. Even in something so innocuous as wearing two colors of socks folks will still lean toward matching them. They work the same in any color. They are not attached to one another etc,, And even if someone is trying to prove they dont care about opinions,and ,, for a day,, wear two colors of socks , most sooner or later will go back to matching their socks and shaving the stubble. Those who do not observe these rules , become outsiders , shunned from the "normal' world, or at least rejected ,generally speaking. Oh I know someone is going to say they match their socks and shave their face because its the way they want to Look, but it still amounts to how they are seen. To give someone advice on this topic , as has been offered, it seems to me to be required that one explain the limits and caveats , to just when they feel this defiant behavior should be limited. .... Someone says they dont care about anyone elses opinion at all , ,,, I dont think so. Not for one second. ... Oh and by the way ,, anyone who challenges what I just said ,,, demonstrates the truth of it. If you so much as Flinch! in private, where No one can see,, you just proved my point.

Obviously foolish , since the crowd didnt care what he had to say anyway.

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