Stosh

That may be true ,I wont contest it as its stated.

I read four chapters, I was waiting for the author to break from the bedtime story, he didnt. I gave it a shake, its not for me.

I very much like where you went with that. I consider the things which both of them eschew to primarily the province of what we call superego. This is the trained morality and dictates one can legitimately call unnatural. Animals dont have this ..for the most part. Joy and sorrow , I would lump with id , guilt and hubris go with superego , understanding the pitfalls of that rollercoaster, is the job and benefit of ego. And so it would make sense to me, is to be focused on the present , id- the Ox , guided by ego -the drover or master. The dictates of superego get considered false ,superficial, problematic,inflexible. Confucious doesnt want to discard the influence of superego because it is very effective socially, despite its heavy weight directly on an individual. So he looks to more of an allegience between ego and superego to dominate the id. And thats it in a nutshell

I dont imagine he did since I was really really bored by ch 4.

And...

Yeah , but I dont bite every bait dangled....either.

What does it say? ..... in the sample I see connecting to god, so its not for me , makes no sense, has nothing to do with the correct reading. IMO the whole thing evolves from looking at this human experience without deities, and thats what makes it special . I already have an interp which inserts god and contemporary morality into the teachings, so I am aware there are card carrying Taoists who believe along those lines.. and consider them all to be wrong.

I thought Zzs sage was useless to other men , did not interfere, choose winners nor losers ,nor render judgements. Which he would have to preferentially do, the karmic retribution would be that the king had either been slighted or the sage would have to go without.

Ok, I have a bowl of steaming fragrant jasmine rice on the left,and on the right theres a cold small bowl of cheap minute rice starting to harden. If I take the bowl on the left somehow Zz thinks I will be worse off, and Lz says I can take the one on the left, but if that one is gone im supposed to be just as happy with the other . Confucious probably says to give the one on the left to my father, or the one on the right to my wife. But they all say to give the best one to the King, so Zz gives the king the cold bowl Right?

This again is strange use of wording. But it may clarify. I would say hope, felt now, is about future, regret felt now, is about past. Joy felt now may be moderate or extreme, sorrow felt now also could be moderate or excessive. So I dont see where this zone of moderation, felt now about now, is delineated because it requires moderate joys not to count as joys, and I think it would mean in your terminology, that ego was excessive joys or sorrows about relating to others. See ? this wording really needs upgrade.

Im totally on board with not overlaying tool sets, and suggest that it can be avoided by not using the term ego at all. To do this the person bringing up an idea for which they wouldve used the word ego ,but not in the Freudian sense of it, would be motivated to actually use some other descriptive. To me it appears that Mh thinks ego has something to with being socially influenced or influencing... and yet farther along, that its this social situation exclusively which brings joy or sorrow. This reading poses a suggestion that a hands off policy , each respecting other folks to guide the course of their own lives prevents sorrows and joys from being experienced. Your own rendering of Lz appears to also set joys and sorrows opposed to something.... naturalness, if one tries to maintain joys and avoid sorrows. Frankly I cant imagine a more natural thing than to want joys rather than sorrows and so suggest that the term natural is also not what is meaning to be said. Ps, I dont mind wandering topics. ..... as long as responses connect with prompts..you can take it where you like. Heck! Please do.

Ah, the very thing you feel undeniable, that ego has something to do with ruling others, is the one undeniably I feel makes a hash of the ten thousand other things. we arent going to agree on this, I sense it in my bones, but what is interesting about this subject is that does feel very central to my own views on what these guys were talking about, ,, and what you just said appears to be pivotal to yours. Thanks for the thorough response though it shows us to be miles apart on some things.

The avoidance af limelight, pomp, pretense, title, etc, is how I read those other passages as well..but this says sorrow and joy.. not only that, it divides naturalness from them. Suggesting...

How central a sentiment do you feel this to be to Zz? Lz?

ok , this time I got robot, ,, a sloppy two error robot. Kind of like this phone, and the people who designed the site. Since my errors were due to fat fingers rather than my eyes, you should suggest this to your wife ,and can then determine if she is a robot from there. They say robots dont get angry.

Doesn't that mean you have BO?

I dont have to worry about getting a job in Japan, since I'm actually a secret millionaire in disguise.

Well my ancestral homeland lies at the terminus of the Golden hordes westward European extent, My blood is B, I also have two rare blood conditions one of which leads to excessive clotting the other to too little , and consume dairy with no problems, that being said ,, I just don't see how knowing what my blood type is ,, is of any use to me ,, since my clotting and dairy consumption abilities are not conclusively dictated by my ABO blood type. Nor am I a millionaire. I'm not saying what associations with ABO blood types being presented can't be true , I'm just saying it may not of practical value to be aware of it.

The various factors that could be tested for are many,the options are certainly not limited to the ABO system. It appears there are some considerations beyond blood donorship.. but whether they are actionable .. that is to say , useful to know about ,and can actually do something significant depending on your ABO blood type isnt clear. Its not like you would declare yourself immune to cholera and could then go where the non immune couldnt. Youd still want to be protecting yourself just like anyone else. Or if you were less tasty to mosquitos, so what ,,, you dont want to get bitten at all. So while I wouldnt say , your blood type is of no significance as to what will befall you, I dont think that normally the knowledge of your blood type gives you any advantage over not knowing. You just are what you are.. Specific ABO blood types are thought to be linked with increased or decreased susceptibility to particular diseases. For instance, individuals with type A blood are at a somewhat higher risk of contracting smallpox and developing cancer of the esophagus, pancreas, and stomach. People who are type O are at a higher risk for contracting cholera and plague as well as developing duodenal and peptic ulcers. Research suggests that they are also more tasty to mosquitoes. That could be a significant factor in contracting malaria.

Gretel didn’t know anything about fishing but he heard big bluefish were being caught at New Smyrna beach, Hansel agreed to take her. Half way out there ,scary dark clouds began to move in, but they decided to continue on , having nothing else planned. As they arrived the skies cleared and they began fishing. Gretel hooked a fish which bent her rod to the ground , peeling off a hundred yards of line. When it was landed, they found the fish weighed only seven pounds. Gretel was bummed because she had been sure it was a record bluefish. Hansel asked if she was out of her mind , because it was a humongous seven pound pompano. Gretel was happy again. Hansel decided Gretel’s emotions and behavior ,were subject to her beliefs and expectations.

Hansel was walking in the woods and saw some bachmans sparrows, every time he drew nearer, the sparrows dived for the bushes before he got close. So he played a recording of their fighting song , and they popped out right by his head in challenge. So Hansel decided the sparrows were pawns of their own emotions.

Fine , so we will eat our carrot , remove the beaver-we , and ignore the us monk . The implications of that multiplicity doesnt direct your actions any differently than if you see yourself as an individual . Take the carrot .., you need to eat something, maybe you feel guilty about taking the life of the carrot , but youre still going to have to eat. If you do eat you , then so what , youre still here because you ate you! If you stop the monk from his pursuits, which are not your own, youre stopping you from wasting your time. If you are the wrong one , then you only hurt yourself , there's no-one to blame for anything. Any way you cut it , the perspective isnt going to guide you , unless you dont carry your considerations to the end implications . If you don't already care about ,and for, you , just as you are,, then being more people animals and so forth doesn't change that. You have to care for , and take care of, the one you that is you as treasure. Spoiling someone else at your own loss , is just as much as loss from the point of view of the other, its just reversed.

The perspective you are describing is potentially very uplifting, but one is still left with having to decide what the appropriate stance is, to take ,regarding other iterations.EX: If that carrot or beaver or monk is also one of me,... so what? The perspective just doesnt yeild an actionable compelled directive. Its moot.

I got hawk with zero errors It seems to be testing mainly sensitivity to color brightness and scan rate. If it was on a bigger or smaller screen than my phone I figure it would change the results. But dont know how you can get 33 since the test goes to 29.

1 , I am throwing one stone at two marks. My post was relevant to his thread, your solution ,could be his best solution. He should give it consideration. 2 you said 'as I wish' and im doing just that. The reason to post in this thread ,is that he has made those associations about not caring and abandoning the manifest, without my influence, and is typical. So these are not my own associations , not MY either / or thinking, these are the teachings of Laosmen. My challenge was to simply show the potentially impractical nature of the philosophy untempered by pragmatism. My task is done, nothing remaining undone.