Stosh

Thats a good Idea about starting fresh , Im dropping the atom idea,,, In the beginning, there was only muff , muff expanded till there was enough room for mass and stuff. The universe is all muff, and all that will ever exist is muff in the shape of an expanding torus. While muff may be regarded as either mass energy etc , (since that which has no mass may be converted to having the property of mass),, its interactions may be massive or energetic. but really all of it is still muff. Muff is a context , a sum of its own muff .both void and material. if you will.

Oh yeah, 100% agreement on that. Im just posing that , ..well I dont do that work, and I consider it very speculative right now. Dark stuff could have been produced at the big bang , and so conservation still holds, then again , maybe dark stuff is just a mathematical correction, and so one couldn't use the physics of today to make solid arguments yet because thats a pretty huge unexplained correction factor , Yes?

Overall, dark energy is thought to contribute 73 percent of all the mass and energy in the universe. Another 23 percent is dark matter, which leaves only 4 percent of the universe composed of regular matter, such as stars, planets and people. Cutting edge Quantum physics and astrophysics are still exploratory, not explanatory about the matter at hand , those arguments aren't solidly enough based yet to conclude something does come from nothingness, (since we dont know about all the dark stuff ), or if quantum pairs are-, or are not ,connected. ( via dark stuff) On the living human being scale , matter and energy are conserved. Some day one side will be able to prove itself as fact to the other, but it isn't yet that time. Despite confusing experimental data,even if it is correct ,the logical conclusion is that stuff doesnt come from nothing.

As you see it, whats the distinction ?

Definition rocker Slang off (one's) rocker "crazy" first recorded 1897. Meaning "one who enjoys rock music" (as opposed to mod (n.1)

Yeah!, I just came across that Idea, was Chuang perhaps just a regular guy as opposed to the rest being political hacks? What, doth you think?

May I suggest that Taoism isnt actually 'opposed to Confucianism' ? Or should I say , mentally categorizing the various factions as opposing , leads to discrepancies. The philosophies differ at a basic level, the goodness of men and society' but its not like they were, or are opposite. You and I may agree or disagree on various things , but that doesn't make us opposed overall. Even the Legalists who where very opposite on the matter of mans goodness, to Laoists, still sharedelements in common with them.

It does remind me of a bit of a Columbo episode , " Oh,, and theres just one more thing.... " The Lord said... "I must go now to be one with all things." and began to fade. The disciple cried out ! Wait Lord , I dont understand ! You must come back ! The Lord replied , coming back to visibility , " What is it this time?" The disciple replied, " How am I to guard the source? " The Lord , tapped his foot , saying, " I thought I already told you all this... be nice. It is time for me to leave" ... again. And so The Lord faded away in a rainbow of shimmering light.

Soul? warning Will Robinson ! !

The Tv batman was rather mild mannered, obeyed the rules, and did the right thing. Id like to think he could take off the cowl and shoot the breeze.

Yeah, very nice choice. I was giong to rebel about my lifes mission being the creation of a compost heap though. I go with the dissolution group obviously. I cant help but consider the immortals grouping to be a tempting back-slide to post mortem living. It still scents of ,,fear of death ,bucking the system , and hanging on to ego. BUUTT, I havent died yet, and I do see how fear of death can be motivational in a positive way. Really nice post.

REAL--- FAKE , real- fake , fake- real .... got it.

Nice excerpts in that thread , the four do indeed appear to be talking about the experiences of life and death but not reincarnation. As in , I am the reincarnation of a carnation. I think I remember being a carnation. My petals were red. and now I don't know if I am a carnation , or a man dreaming I am a carnation.

PRICELESSly concise , very nice Though it seems to conflict with taoist advice to be like a baby , doesnt it?

I do like to humor you , youre in a very exclusive club. I was pointing out how non-chaotic I am , but then failed since pointing it out was a lapse -change of subject ,, so Back to the Dream .. Yes I would say the dream of the butterfly existed , but in the end of the thing , he expresses a less than complete certitude that the dream in gone. I see life as a general principle , expressed in living forms , but our definition doesn't need to be stretched far to include the planet as a living organism. To me , I don't see him making any claims that the identity we have is somehow preserved through the process of death. You would be able , better than I to bring in another clippet which could support the idea ,, though I would be surprised.

Boy you're tossing a lot of teasers out there ! Notice me not biting on them, arent you proud

Aha! Changes ! Normal dream normal reverie , normal changes in perspective no reincarnation nor astral projection- subject is not necessarily death. Heck he could be considering his career for all we know.

Well if we are sometimes thinking we are reincarnations of a butterfly,, (or prostitute as was implied) Im thinking that would be an example of chaotic.. as opposed to me being me and never being some kind of bug. Right?

Are you sure Youre a butterfly, Hmmmm? ZZ wasnt. I was thinking?

Yeah I indulged a bit, but I really get tired of the ethnocentrism . Everyone being unique , means if one is going to group ,then all those variations are invalid. The grouping itself is ignoring that individuality. You should come on over to this side.

To What trivial and potentially insulting trait should I draw the attention, so I can exacerbate the divides between people? And somehow demonstrate that we are basically the same? Maybe I shouldve used some mathmatical wizardry, to prove an individual to be a fast runner by virtue of belonging to a group ,that averages out to have fast runners. Then we individually wouldnt have to prove ourselves, we could just wave flags. It would be much simpler. The doctor asks my weight, and I show him my flag of affilliation . The student asks about my credentials to teach and I can just mention my race, nationality, and mother tongue. Then they will know I have the ticket. It would really be just SO much easier to lump everyone into categories! Categories are just so REAL!

Ill tell ya what the difference between easterners and westerners is.. nada ! You got a-holes we got a-holes.

Thanks for addressing my thing ,, I agree.. mostly

Good luck with that taming thing Deci loves that persona, and some folks can enjoy it , others dont. Whadda ya gonna do?

I liked him a lot , CD, and would enjoy his return but. He is probably subject to less hostility now ,which seemed to come in waves while he was here, and that prompted a heated attitude he doesnt innately have,, just as ive seen folks be intolerantly crappy to several others ,and consider it a disservice to implore his return. If he left on his own ,the door slamming is unjustified IMO. When one feels they are pushed, they may push back, that should be no surprise to anyone. I am not saying this to condone TTBs ban nor to change the status quo, but he isnt a hostile jerk, and that should be spelled out lest the banishment predispose a newbie to assume it.