Stosh

Well sir we equally 'could' all not cultivate for the benefit of others. In fact , I suspect that one always cultivates or does anything , to fulfill what it is that they themselves want induced. The reason being that Its just not possible to do with intent , that which we do not intend. If someone wants to do something for me theres a certain car that needs a good waxing., but ahh , I see no hands volunteering to wax my car for me , and why is that ? maybe they dont feel that theres anything in it for them? Of course, a 'should' is always an opinion, the tao laughs at all that should be.

Does that mean that you dont feel there are-is universal virtue ,, truths about whats good for everyone anywhere? Where does this leave The book of classic virtue.

Theres no justification to say either. , and there is sound reason to avoid saying them both

"We should" ? Tsk tsk

So long as your answers fit your mind thats good , Im just saying Im not trying for the gotcha scenario, but rather pasting together a reasonably cohesive picture that depicts how the philosophy plays down to practical position on things. So anyway, does the tzujan ( if it equates to character ) serve as a basis to determine what virtue would be on an individual basis or would it devolve down to general principles which apply generally. ?

The web says that progesterone is a precursor to testosterone , that it inhibits some negative effects of estrogen, and moobs are caused by lowered progesterone levels ,, not beng an endocrinologist though , I couldnt say what the proper application regimen should be or at what doses what does what to what parts, because ,, since elements of this hormonal collection substitute in metabolic pathways for one another having variable effect.

Go ahead and redraw the picture if you like, Ill not try to hold you to a presentation which a moments consideration would alter to something you'd be more comfortable to stand behind. It makes it hard for me to phrase a follow up, if I think you are of a mind different from what Im addressing.

Could they not be considered both a trade-off and blessing.

'Instinctual and intuitional' ,, is a habit considered those ? to take a photo I press a button , Ive learned that , considered it ,made decisions about use of it ,all in the past ,, In the present it would seem instinctual, would it not? but there is nothing inherently instinctive for humans to press camera buttons , right? Similarly , without thinking, I might strike a person that made me angry .. this could be to teach them a well earned lesson , or it could be to dissipate tension with the action,,, so would these behaviors be considered my tzujan of the moment? or the fabrications of the past being applied anew. Additionally , its part of the human makeup -thusness, to learn ,,,and would this not then mean that anything one did , was , thus , what he is? and one step farther, could he be not-thus? for if there is no inverse to thusness then thusness doesnt exist - using the precept of yin-yang. Like anything else that happens , it is only that which happens which happens and that which didnt happen , is just an imaginary event ,, which didnt happen.

Makes sense,, ok so whats that Tzujan thing youve mentioned .. I was gonna segue smoother off yin yang myself , I dont see much to get out of the topic other than it demonstrates a perspective based , thingie,, The interweb describes the tzujan as something to do with harmonizing with the tao , as Ive read it seems you may consider it more about normal human nature eventually Id like to get to these things in terms of , what theyre supposed to mean in daily living ,, thats to say how these issues are to be regarded ,, not so much - to know what these terms mean as part of a jargon ,, but more of why they should be considered, If I am told My bug photography is considered more yo or wu , well, it doesnt make me any more skilled. And if a sage is used as an object lesson, well whats his tzujan got to do with mine? if its both wu and yo also.

Why not? it would connect the paradigms , give reason for considering mental things in terms of yin and yang ..

I see, ,again, nice answer,,, Would you feel it is essentially accurate to compare wu / yo to yin/yang ? Why would it behoove someone to consider wu and yo at all if they are going to be doing both (emphasizing either) inevitably anyhow?

I was thinking about this over the weekend , and Id say yeah, it fits your yo mode , I use info from the past, apply it to the present , to induce a directed future , . I just dont see where wu comes into the picture. The butcher , is said to be in wu wei , right ? and I am acting much as the butcher does, and what I am doing is basically yo,, well you see the contradiction there,,, can you clear that up? and yes, he fairly turned the tables on me in that post When not concentrating on a situation that needs be changed, one should practice being fully aware of their surroundings. To concentrate on nothing but aware of everything. (No, I'm not there yet but I know it's important.) ... that describes the hunt well however.

Thanks , but I think these ideas might pop up to anyone trying to get a picture which jives if they think there is sincerity to the scenario. If the butcher is aware of what there is in the universe entering , I figure that is either , everything in the universe.. or just what is available around him ,, if he is aware of everything , then he should be able to read the minds of those around him literally , see around corners,know the presence of microbes etc , or he should not know where the bones are hidden in the flesh ,,, (if he is only aware of what he, or we, could see). So why,,, 2500 yrs ago wouldnt he wash his hands first or hit bones?

You might try BirdNote.org on the interweb to check some calls like white-crowned sparrow, if you can narrow it down by elevation environment location and time of year.

So the wu mode Mh mentions is not an island of sorts?

Well those are very good answers none-the less, for being answers to things you would question yourself. So how would a normal go about gaining the advantages of a sage? or continuing on that earlier track, Is not the butcher in full attention to his one task in wu wei and therefore in full Yo mode?

Thats interesting , down here in hot humid Fla the place has cleared out for the most part. ( as it usually does ) I doubt you have to worry that you will cramp mr birdies style much though right now- theyre probably finishing up with the breeding cycle now, and ushering the last kids out of the house. I couldnt tell you about the bird call though 1) I dont have a musical ear for birds they change their songs up too much , and 2) the salient elements of songs often weighs heavily on timing timber volume etc. If you can record it , and post it up, on the flickr bird ID help group has some amazing folks who could satisfy your curiosity probably same day.

No irony there, in those sociable hermits.

How can I trick you with a question? Anyway , if he isnt any different in yo mode from anyone else, then to what ,can he owe special awareness of the rhino? If he is somewhat in yo, even when in wu mode , then even in wu mode he is still vulnerable , and can make the same errors ,,is-can he not?

Makes me wonder if camels would get along with whales.

Well Mh I dont suppose anyone can really say they arent building with the ideas that have been considered before, the construct may not end up the same though. Anyway .. Ok If the wu and yo are ends of a gradient or spectrum , how is a Sage in yo mode different from anybody else , and why could then a rhino find no place for its horn?

Thank you for the attention you've already put into this , if and when you have some conversational time we could pick back up on this point if you are willing ,, since Im really not interested in Mr Wangs opinion in this case, just your own. The reason being that one cohesive mindset should be illuminating more than hopping around to Rene's or Mr Wangs and then over here and there, so at least the terminology and perceptions should remain consistent, and I dont know Mr Wang in any way that implies I should consider him credible ( or not credible) , and Rene has dropped off the radar ( as well as expressed opinions inexplicable to herself , though I like her style and sincerity) Thanks

This Yo state is a bit of a surprise to me , confusing because it looked like you were describing a spiritual state that a person could actual be in ( or doing) , or be out of , but now it looks like a description dividing his being into divisons of physical and spiritual, can you clarify this ?

Nicely stated , am I to take from this that there is a state which is not Wu that a sage or other person could be in?