Stosh

Go to bottom of posting box , hit more reply options , hit choose files , browse your computer , find the pic , hit right click SELECT, then hit add to post and hit submit reply , make sure the data amount isnt too big. if it is resize the pic in windows or such to make a presentable file size,,, Im no computer wiz , so if you still have a difficulty ask Bagua Kicks ass or someone else who is for better directions.

You were 'duped' into breathing the way you do? Ok well taking that as a starting point , ,, this would mean that you learned unconsciously how to breathe in a "not right " way.. How is it that you did not defy this reprogramming if it feels better to breathe the other way? Are you saying you somehow can tell how he is breathing and emulate that because you want to be admired? Ok , What says to you that you should do things, to be admired? Im thinking yes , the brain can control sneezing even though its usually a somatic reaction ,( as in psychosomatic sneezing around a cat which doesnt occur, until the person sees the animal ) Would this be a healthy or pleasant connection -association for one to be doing, ? and why is it then , that the person 'does' this reaction. ( as you suppose it)

Ill try another direction on this , five plates of nutritionally equivalent foods are set before you, ( you are allowed just one) and you choose one of them . What is it that made you pick the one you did? (such as, you liked it better , you approved of it better , you are most familiar with it etc etc ) Im thinking most might say that they chose the one they liked best , but I dont know yet.. Im asking about motivations,, ( Im not asking if you are a vegetarian or like beans or coffee ) once answered, Ill have a follow-up to what you said. if anyone is willing to answer this " its not a trick " the way this relates to the earlier thing is that they revolve around the thing that causes us to do, or not do, things.

Ok , lets say I breathe and one day I breathe just a bit closer to that style and it feels good , why why dont I breathe like that more often? and then another day , breathe that way just a hair more correctly ,, and so on ,until I was doing it right? I read one thing on belly breathing , it said that such was the normal style of breathing for babies,, well , then I too already breathed that way once,, as a baby , and then learned to NOT breathe that way later. No one ever taught me any breathing at all. You are not far off in understanding my question Cd , youre talking about a reflexive action , manipulated by mind , and becoming habit. but your direction is that you CAN learn it , rather than , why dont you do it already, yes its not the "norm" you proceed from there as if the norm is the place to start, I am backing up to a time before the norm is fully established , why would you do this wrong norm in the first place? or not self correct without even trying. ( I thought you promoted doing what was Natural? The CK breathing is bad?)

That may be well and true Nugali , but what Im ,still ,sincerely asking , is why we don't learn certain things , since we dont have much of that animal programming that gets called instinct . You too are getting to the question, as in lab rats, but not there yet.

Fair enough, CD but what Im asking, is not if one needs to learn how , but why is it that one doesnt learn how to make it happen without an external stimulus,, your brain does learning and the tendency is to repeat what one likes , so why cant it seem to learn to sneeze on its own,, that one would do it for no reason other than they liked doing it? There was a M. Critchton book The Terminal man , the protagonist has seizures and doctors try to correct them by putting some electrodes in his brain so there was a positive feedback mechanism , which was supposed to automatically correct his problems but his brain starts intentionally activating it because it liked the stimulation, and so he goes nuts ( if I remember it correctly). Obviously electroshock aversion therapy is based on a learning ability , and one can manipulate people, to a degree ,to react positively or negatively without realizing it. ( same as with pets) Theres also addictions and phobias which , are often considered rather umm 'uncoerced' or nonvolitional. All of which relates to unconsciously incorporated attitudes pessimism apathy depression , bad habits, self image etc. So if a person is going to get control of themselves re: these issues , then I'd like to know why it is that so much behavior is not inherently 'self correcting' or 'self encouraging'. If you taste something nasty , it takes no time to "learn" that you dont want to eat that , and you might be repulsed by even the idea of eating it again... but if you liked it a lot , you also wouldnt need much time to learn to gravitate toward the food. So in that vein, if breathing Chi Kung(氣功) style, feels good , then why does it take PRACTICE.when I dont have to practice spitting out broccoli ? I should already be doing it ( having done lots of breathing in my day)

an artifact of improperly assesed expectations. I have em all the time too.

As Im thinking of Luck, it is a characterization of events , grouping the events into "good" or "Bad" or 'Likely' or 'Unlikely".. and this is where the hitch lies. For instance , if you were one of the few born into warm nurturing family, you could say it was Good luck...because you werent in existance to pick where and when youd be concieved. If you believe in Karma mediated reincarnation, well then the good family would have been a consequence of past lives rather than dumb random luck. Thats pretty much the options,,, things are either caused ... or 'dumb random' defined. So If one caused something -- its not called "luck" ---and if its just random events,, 'luck' has no meaning. Because this idea of luck falls apart rationally , I say its an artificial mental construct. Its just an artificial 'grouping' made upon an incomplete consideration of pertinent data ( much of which you cannot know)

Im not sure where the edges of my upbringing actually are , so If I was going to take a hacksaw to my personality , I wouldnt know what belonged versus didnt . Maybe some of each piece really belonged. Its really not such an easy thing to divide what we might be innately versus what we have learned to be. ( because a person isnt 'completed' in the absence of socialization- unless you think being a wolf boy is epitome of human development) And dont think you are going to have yourself all squared away by the Sabbath. some level of patience is considered a virtue.

Oh yeah, right , I forgot , that was so OBVIOUS ! ( slaps own forehead )

What perspective is that? Outer Space?

Quite reasonable , but ,, what is there that could tweak power structures? Theres the saying, I have seen the enemy ,and he is me. Societies moral values are heavily dependent on the basic human condition , including both its illusions and truths in measures. This is the origin of societies conceptualized "good and evil " is it not? with the firmware of its support sometimes called law , sometimes called religion, or attitudes .. and its just not a simple thing to shift this substanceless conceptual tangle... where could one grasp it ? how could one smash it ? shade it , or diminish its influence? and yet it does change, and we all know of people we believe have shifted the course of history ,, changed public opinion. Look back to attitudes prevalent here just one hundred years ago... many of them ,you probably do not share. (this a SHORT hop back in time, not even the full life span that some have enjoyed- though yes many have lived and died in such a period.. for instance if I remember my own childhood it was a circumstance which still personally affects me today and therefore still is pertinent and influential ) Its just that such changes, with the invisible pace of seasons. "Thou , young and full of life , impatient , headstrong, uncalmly lovely. ..be patient , or be not so patient , time sweeps by."

"A Picture is Worth a Thousand Words" If this is the theme of the thread , Not that they arent interesting images ,,but ,, How come so much of what is being presented needs words of explaining? Perhaps the title should be , "Even just one single picture -requires a thousand words"

Oh youre looking at the larger issue of its effect on all humankind and all the planet. I was just thinking about the welfare of the students that were to take the class. The whole world is too big of an issue to "solve" at one go.. but Im not so sure that pessimism is really warranted as the best attitude about the situation. Youre entitled to it though if you want it,, its not like one cant find reasons to feel that way. My own take on it is to look at folks like John Muir , Jacques Cousteau , even M L King and Steve Irwin they each contributed in their own way toward a shift in attitudes about the environment society etc.. So that very brief period of modern time , which you are pointing out , also indicates that our own adaptation has also not been afforded a great deal of time to come to grips with population levels etc. There is a great deal out there to point one toward optimism as well. Like a popular Harvard class about values and society.. If you want to overcome some very high expectations that it alone could solve the worlds ills. Even if the class itself was simplistic or impractical ,, the fact that the well off students at Harvard, Themselves ,were interested in it lends a brighter view of a possible future. Theres only so much you can reasonably do , a momentum or inertia to overcome , and its just the sort of things that the perseverance of a flowing stream might erode,, given time.

The world on its own changes beneath our feet , inevitable change... and so where there is life there will be change and suffering... all the world is burning.

Whatever excuses or rationalizations one could make to build where they did, they actually did it for the emotional impact of the site and the symbolism of a retreat from the situation of the masses. Just look at them ! Wonderful. How could anyone ever come to another conclusion, defeats me.

Youre making a sound point Tm , but, what is your solution to the problem? whats the thing that flips the switch , shakes the foundations of ones mindset, the fire that burns the tangles to ashes?

Well for one thing Id tell them that they are the ones who want change and therefore they need to look at their attitudes and decide what it is they really want, and what it is they are really doing. The restrictions they are presenting to me , such as the reluctance to ask questions , the time constraint etc are things which they created and also the type obstacles they present to themselves not just to me. Its their own attitudes which provide both the direction of their path and the problems they defeat themselves with. ( Its same basic message as Buddha taught - you tend to make yourself unhappy) One needs to accept what reality has presented and presents , which includes yourself, includes your potential and flaws,, and includes your abilities motivations and dreams which are what can change the world you live in. Without this acceptance , they will always be climbing uphill with one hand behind their back. If they can soak that in rather than blow it off as mumbo jumbo , then they can be taught ,, though they'd need it less... if at all.

What would you like me to answer for you.

What does that mean ? Its just not true! Have you been talking to whats his name again?

Thats very nice of you , keep up the good work.

No thats not really true. If it was ,then you would have to agree with me , which you dont . Thats just a patronizing platitude to get people to stop arguing. "yes yes youre right too." and its bad in that it makes it even harder to correct errors. Just accept when youre wrong.

Whats up with the little edit notes I have been seeing?

I think my heart..if not seperated by mind.. has its own set of parameters .which affect my responses to things..like anger.So I think the presented quote has an inherent bias. The unconditional aspect is artifact of this erroneous subdivision of human nature into "nice" and not nice". My cat as an object lesson ,demonstrates that to be mindless, doesnt mean one is unconditonally accepting or embracing.She is quite complete even without the mental abstractions of humans. Do you not observe this to be true ? Or have the abstractions of theists become so embroiled with your conceptualizations that you would continue to incorporate them EVEN as you are trying to search your soul ?

Yeah its fun to speculate .. and yep too it can be fun to haul-off and let fly with unfair or poorly considered judjements just because it gets so tedious to keep making ' excuses ' for everybody when it doesnt seem to be coming your own way quite often enough. I like to do that best when Im driving. But , slowly , and quite to my surprise of late, is that somehow Im also having some fun by keeping my yap shut and letting some things just roll off my shoulders.. I cant explain it..Logically it doesnt seem to make sense to me.Im working on it becoming a habit as natural to me as sarcasm used to be. Some other day Ill come up with some long boring analysis of it ..but for now..Im not.