Stosh

I highlight that , because I see it, that one cant call humility- a pure virtue-- (vs vice) But one can still KNOW ones limitations without the dross of the "humility" The two are not linked .. I KNOW I cant jump a chasm, I dont have to carry emotional baggage regarding it . Take the unreal stigma of 'good' humility versus the 'low' self esteem and what you are left with is a peception of ones relative merit versus some 'greater' thing. This is in agreement with your idea to be "humiliated, without shame" except that the word humiliated implies shame ,(or that shame would be considered an appropriate response in the face of the stigma) ,, whereas informed doesnt ,, so I'd promote that word instead. So the benefit of Tms childhood experience was that she became made aware of her limitations , not that she possibly felt lessened or defeated or was exposed to herself as coming up short.

UGGHHH !

Humbled is private , humiliated is the action at the event , ashamed is the personal reaction to public humiliation, they all go together like conjugations , though clement is somewhat correct, I guess, .. maybe , I dont really think so though... about BKAs thread, some of which I think she starts as conversation starters or because shes looking the the psyche aspect of 'sharing' . We differ on that because you see the humbling as some "good thing" which I do not. Ill take your word for that... and it makes sense- if this kind of humility is a "better option than the other". Frankly I still think you are rather proud which is the thing which makes the issue sticky , IMO And yes we all have differing vantage points , perspectives , but its just possible that some may understand yours better than you might think , and youre not so all alone out there... thats just assumption of course , because no one can ever be sure of that which another experiences ( goes through , survives etc.) unless you have some mysterious mind reading power which goes beyond empathy.. even if it looked like the circumstances were entirely alike or entirely unalike looking. But Ill leave it there and go wander off.

So youre saying the humiliation is the good part? Ok , but umm Im thinking thats the 'dross'.

Wow , I can imagine how a kid ( or many adults ) would freak out over the coating of mayflies like that though.

Yes , I have studied it some. Sure , but you can understand what is desirable , or what worked, without the need to embrace the spanking or the new approach of defeat as if it were now fit for you. Grasping on to that same humble proud paradigm pairing , as if it had validity .. is .. not doing anyone any good. Look back on something you didnt do as youd have wished , or it didnt go as youd have hoped.. Im thinking you can probably see that you perhaps were EITHER actually trying the best you knew how under the circumstances, or the misfortune landed on you out of nowhere. Neither is ' blamable' really. The raped woman , the failed stock broker , the debilitated , injured , the mentally abused. I dont wish on them- not one iota -of humility due to any of it... and have defiance for anyone who wishes it on them,, that they should have learned some lesson or other ! ,, that maybe now, in front of folks ,they are supposed to bow their heads in some disgrace , or retreat from opportunities newly presented , to play the role of loser, eternally second guess what they would have done? No ,, I dont wish that on folks, it isnt better than accepting what happened was what happened,, and yes, use that going forward with broader perspective, but no , not to carry the fear of future imagined spankings hanging over ones head like the sword of Damocles. And what guarantee is there they they will not sacrifice both now and tomorrow , which are fresh .

Would that be considered a tight set?

That too has a reasonable element , but how much does a person needs to actively dwell on what they consider misfortunes? Could mithshryke benefit by remembering the 'humiliation' re: his health issues ? or anyone else theirs? The facts were whatever the facts were,... decisions made , events happened , the emotional redirect of humiliation isnt required , its just a 'burning in' with pain that which could have been cognitively embraced. I dont wish humiliations to be doled out so I can deem people as improved, Id much rather see the bold happiness of the ignorant unfettered child within, rather than the beaten down, beaten back, retreat of the humiliated. Would you rather have succeeded at any given thing rather than consider yourself to have failed , or to be lacking? Well,,, if there is anything to compassion , and thee being me , or "there, but for the grace of god, go I" then one should be wishing for others, that same good existance they wanted for themselves ( as I do) ,, The tricky part is that folks attribute some 'virtue' to failures which have left a scar, and , in that state, they want to count themselves among the improved ,thinking themselves being so, dont want to let go of the fungible attribute of humility. Humiliation, can as much, lead to angry active retribution , suicide , diminished self respect , as could lead to a better more sincere level of relating to others. Do Yoou want to watch people who you arent at odds with ,being humbled to some theoretically improved state ? Is it not ugly ? Thusly pointed out , anyone should be able to see, that humility doesnt stand as any kind of pure virtue , the events that bring it on are merely a scar, which the benefits of are dubious , not certain. So I kind-of dislike its promotion.

Yesterday is gone and often best forgotten, so the present can be fresh. But Im sure most of yall have considered that.So Is there a pull to compete or confess? Im thinking everybody would be one click better off without recounting it all , but then , perhaps theres at leat the tiny gain of pride in having come through crappy circumstance ,, but that wouldnt really be humble , now would it? Un- humbled by humbling circumstance ? Thats much better.IMO

I dont know how long ago that was , but they arent so bad now as they once were, I googled it and read that some natural balance had reduced them from being as prolific as they had once been. Luckily like MH said they arent so bad at night and the torrential downpours help to wash them off. Wherever you go theres always SOMETHING natural disaster-wise so I guess you choose your poison. But I suppose one could also joyfully and with an air of embrace, stick ones head out the window, while driving, to experience the unique sensation they would present. ( for those without motor cycles )

Lightning bugs? Wow I havent seen those in a long long time.. they just arent down here in Central FL, that I know of. I wish they were , Id like to try to get a photograph of them. When I lived up north I remember a 'gathering' of them once.

ones and zeros floating away like balloons a graceful thought. When i was younger and read that koan I was comfortable with the sound wave unattended Idea. and felt it answered the thing completely. But now older I think of those who didnt have this science ..what could it resolve to ? drifting substanceless potential? the mystery of that which did NOT happen ? the enigma of The universe? or perhaps the requirement of an audience for things to have existance. I figure that to them this riddle was a very concise trail leading a student to get a feeling of the tao unattainable as a logical conclusion. Now we have the very long path of science to travel with all its attending gifts and comforts yet bringing us , or at least me, to the very same feeling of the greatest enigma. Answering much of WHAT can be done ..suggesting that which might be expedient to us but not in the end never answering WHY beyond our own motivations. Or so it seems to me.

Hurricanes AND tornadoes ,, and fire .. ..and rain ..and occasional snow And of course lightning.. and Love bugs ..

And even more compassionate if the recipient was a human being... but expecting that would just be too unlikely. Why did the artist choose a dog ? because they may be considered to be innocent whereas a person may not be,, which is a judgement of worthiness which the eternal Tao wouldnt impose. Now if they had chosen a chicken ,well then we would have too many other speculations to indulge in like, was he waiting to cross the road ?, and Why?

I've played there too..

But ,, I'm not retired yet ! Oh, and this is a very loose connection to the same scene where he says he isn't dead yet. Again , not particularly funny but I'm easily amused sometimes.

Please sweet lord Jesus grant them peace everlasting. That's close to the only Latin I remember but I like the wording.. in latin. We talked about this phrase a while back you and I. it just popped to mind again striking me funny as they were chanting it in Monty Python and the holy grail . when writing grail just now this phone changed the spelling to trail. I dont know how to turn that feature off..which is vexing. I'm under the perhaps incorrect assumption that its a commonly understood phrase like E pluribus Unum. And if not , that would render it generally unfunny.

Zzzzzzz

Pie Jesu dominae , donna e ist requiem sempirvirens or something like that .

Baby not sleepin Now...

What are the five gentlemanly subjects? ..Ive never heard of it..them.

A wise man may play a fool well, but a fool has a hard time playing wise. So, no worries are warranted among the wise or foolish for the wise recognize their own , give the benefit of a doubt to the fool, and a fool cant tell the difference anyway.

We're probably about as smart as anything needs to be, considering that only passing the threshold of a chimp just an evolutionary blink back, and we're already mastering much of the physical factors which would drive evolutionary development.. entering into an era of cultural development rather than physical. So I find it equally plausible that we might find the aliens to be similar in mental development, or even degenerated into a technologically cradled Morlock. But I like Neil, he wants to popularize science , and I dont feel his shortcut is a major transgression of the facts.

Chuang would have thought that potentially what we have is a Utopia with sad people filling it. IMO

Current practical water desalination, costs around a three dollars per thousand gallons , at 100 gal per day per person usage , which to me sounds like I dont have to give it any thought , except to consider that oil rich mideastern countries could do an awful lot of irrigation ...