Stosh

Dont need no Buddhism , most of it is borrowed or ,, adjusted since, Gautama anyway. Is azure the proper color of the sky ? 1 Is that title actually part of the ancient writings ? 2 no it is cerulean 3 all things are exactly as they are " there is no proper or improper" 4 one cant tell if another sees the same color as they do , its subjective 5 no the sky has no actual color the impression is due to differential diffraction so it could be called orange or red or clear etc. But he may not know that yet.

Thats reasonable , but even before Buddhism got on that scene, the Vedic religions had reincarnation , and it would be surprising if there was no reputation of it . I dont know if the Shamanist traditions had it as well if they are considered to predate Zz either. Not to mention homegrown reincarnation ,, even christianity has it though thats not generally a recognized theme. So he Could have been poking at reincarnation, methinks ,until you can discount it more thoroughly. The Tarim mummies are a series of mummies discovered in the Tarim Basin in present-day Xinjiang, China, which date from 1800 BCE to 200 CE.[1][2] The mummies, particularly the early ones, are frequently associated with the presence of the Indo-European Tocharian languages in the Tarim Basin,[3] although the evidence is not totally conclusive and many centuries separate these mummies from the first attestation of the Tocharian languages in writing. Victor H. Mair's team concluded that the mummies are basically Europoid, likely speakers of Indo-European languages.[4] 3800 years is early enough to predate Zz , and it indicates that at least in the more western portions of china there was already trade with far reaching cultures outside China proper.

I was just thinking there might be more to it than random. It looks like cicadas are symbolic of rebirth change , doves of longevity fidelity and he could have been poking at reincarnation and immortality.

Ok Ok

Yeah ,, thats true , and so can a bird be so screwed up it can only go up and down a tree. But oddities often make for less than ideal analogies because they are exceptions to the rules not broadly relateable. I figure the Li peng is another such which is why its so easy for ZZ to be difficult ,, but it also adds a bit of whimsy. I was thinking that the name turtle dove is odd ,, perhaps there was once some now lost myth about them only going up and down one tree.. A better modern choice would be a goat sucker. But yes , Im willing to stand against Zz even-- if he is promoting a 'crock'. Another could probably broaden their horizons enough to realize that doves can fly just fine simply by looking out a window once in a while..

Yeah but its like saying the turtle sat upon a lilly pad and caught flies with his tongue!

In section eleven it says that zebras are black with white stripes what does this imply about kun lun?

We are hereby moving on to the next section

Easy,,,,, just go ,,,,,,,,,,Ok -well I think this covers it well enough , we are moving on .

A cicada and a little dove laughed at it, saying, 'We make an effort and fly towards an elm or sapan-wood tree; and sometimes before we reach it, we can do no more but drop to the ground. Doesnt it mean that they can only make short flights , they dont have the oompf to cross continents ? Yes thats really picky on my part. It just sounds odd that a turtle dove could only fly up and down the same tree, doves are actually fairly strong fliers and hit 45 mph.

Well Im just thinking that it would be a flag , when we are starting the next thingie, wasnt the plan to allow discussion of parts already covered -retroactively ? So earlier chapter one issues could still be addressed by not closing the thread , just sticking in the flag. Its like zero effort and just keeps us on the same page-section.

I think the idea of covering sections individually is a very good idea , to accommodate your wish to keep the chapters together in the thread , possiibly you could shut the door on a section when its played out and just post a THIS SECTION 8 IS FINISHED ,, STARTING SECTION 9 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And then just go ahead with 9 Maybe just pose the first thing that we are supposed to get from it ,as a question, so we get rolling and we will push.

Sounds like DONT READ THIS! I JUST FELT LIKE WRITING SOMETHING. Lao

I was kidding there mh I find the new tbs frmat to be rather awkward on this phone. Either way I prefer to let yall run your own dojo ill catch up.No worries.

They did some tests that one subatomic particle can influence another seemingly too far away -kilometers . I think its outside the scale we live at , like li peng vs a sparrow. and steve may think similarly, but somehow correlating it to yin influencing yang as an instantaneos. Counterbalancing effect.

yeah , but I get it now. Giles concept naming goes retroactively back, whereas we are trying to go forward one step at a time, and helpfully intended direction toward the support in the chapter for the concept is for quick reference included. I think

You could maybe organize it along the lines of TBs new format

Oh ! I thought I screwed up somewhere ( and did just not when I thought so) Ill get it soon, Im just a bit dim at times

Ha Ha Ha , I use that maneuver too! How good are you at getting through toll booths do you read auto auras?

This whole chunk is summarized by the last two sentences so it doesnt need explanation further A cicada and a little dove laughed at it, saying, 'We make an effort and fly towards an elm or sapan-wood tree; and sometimes before we reach it, we can do no more but drop to the ground. Of what use is it for this (creature) to rise 90,000 li, and make for the South?' He who goes to the grassy suburbs, returning to the third meal (of the day), will have his belly as full as when he set out; he who goes to a distance of 100 li will have to pound his grain where he stops for the night; he who goes a thousand li, will have to carry with him provisions for three months. What should these two small creatures know about the matter? The knowledge of that which is small does not reach to that which is great; (the experience of) a few years does not reach to that of many. How do we know that it is so? The mushroom of a morning does not know (what takes place between) the beginning and end of a month; the short-lived cicada does not know (what takes place between) the spring and autumn. These are instances of a short term of life. In the south of Ku [2], there is the (tree) called Ming-ling, whose spring is 500 years, and its autumn the same; in high antiquity there was that called Ta Khun, whose spring was 8000 years, and its autumn the same. And Master Peng is the one man renowned to the present day for his length of life: if all men were (to wish) to match him, would they not be miserable? ◑ It is to be expected that short-lived life-forms live on another scale than long-loved ones, and hold views and notions that fit that scheme of things too. Is it time for chapter three so soon?

Gee Mh , I might as well say this outright, I have no idea at all how to approach examination of the chapters from the list of concepts listed as such. IF WATER is not heaped up deep enough, it will not have the strength to support a big boat. Upset a cup of water in a cavity, and a straw will float on it as if it were a boat. Place a cup in it, and it will stick fast; – the water is shallow and the boat is large. (So it is with) the accumulation of wind; if it be not great, it will not have strength to support great wings. Therefore (the Peng ascended to) the height of 90,000 li, and there was such a mass of wind beneath it; thenceforth the accumulation of wind was sufficient. For instance This all looks to me like he is relating one basic idea about the relative relationship of things. But expanding that already to the opposition of subjective to objective seems premature. ( even though it may play into that concept later)

I read most of all that Steve, and Im not up to speed on the math , but it looks like the entanglement of the two particles is measured in three orientations each , the results are always opposite for one orientation , always the same for another and 50-50 for the third, indicating just potential influence at a distance BETWEEN ENTANGLED PARTICLES , So its not a potential 'yin and yang' style polemic model. Yes entanglement theory is ,,, nifty and odd, but it doesnt say anything about unentangled particles , and it doesnt say that brains are entangled. So there is precisely Zero reason to consider minds to all be attatched to some unity or other Or that no minds are connected to an entanglement unity either ,,,or,, that Zz was referring to anything like that in chapter one. So I personally dont see how a quantum entanglement analogy sheds light on the chapter . Since the theorem says absolutely nothing at all on why this phenomenon occurs . Maybe we agree and Im looking at it too closely though.

Yeah its a fascinating read.. and since the fantasy ' kum ba yah land' isnt here ,, it has valid applications. On TB's , most are going to eschew it as being "bad" though. (which I find ironic)

I think I do, which is why I chose the word interpretation . I figure you are probably perfectly correct on the word translations. ( although I cant independently verify that , I just am willing to take your word for it , its your thing )

Zhuang Tze likes to exaggerate by thinking himself as a gigantic fish. Was this the thing you feel is the important thing to understand ? Or this,, , Zhuang Tze was suggesting that one must get oneself educated Either view seems fine with the other interps. I dont see why one has to cling to one and one only interp. As Mh said .. MH will allow us to view something from a different angle and it might just be a piece we were missing.