Stosh

Picture stretching a wire , it thins and gets longer , and longer and longer.. If matter is composed of some continuous material ( like an ocean wave on large scale) rather than atomic ,, (clumps of marbles) , it theoretically would thin and stretch forever because there would be no threshold to how thin it could get. Since there is discreteness to particles , when you pass the theoretical minimum of two connected particles ,the wire always breaks.( there are other such examples like inability to close or open a gap , which again , proven empirically suggest an atomic basis for the universe)

Oh no no no ! dont you make me go back and search it Up, it isnt nice to dredge up old posts

I dont exist?? If I dont exist ,who is it that is not existing ? and who said I dont exist. I exist alright , the thing that should be made clear is that,, there is the really misleading phrasing that a person is not existing , and the idea that ones persona is a subjective situation subject to alteration, and somewhat independent of physical variables.

Didnt you tell me once way back that the military could be a good vehicle for teaching wu wei? If anybody around here is going to be crude its me! ( Ok , yes ,and a few others )

This is a point on which we differ , leaving many contradictions IMO isnt assisting anyone to new better clearer understanding, it is perpetuating confusion ,, there is a point where folks do give up resolving them though. Keen to avoid confrontation rather ,, the contradiction still remains , and they must overlook yet again a subject that they might have been able to concur on. Yes the unnecessary paradox does make people think that it is a deep wise thing (when what it actually is nonsensical) You need to pick the paradox before I can agree there is wisdom in accepting it. Please pick a better paradox ,confused words alone , does not a paradox make. Maybe ,,, folks dont like to be pushed around , accused , found wanting , held up for examination like a guinea pig etc , and so the use of some other target ,, be it a He , She , One , or 'the Sage' makes the instruction less onerous. I dont despair at the paradox or nonsense, I try to reconcile it ,, if I can do that , I begin to have faith in it. If I cannot find a way to reconcile it I look to see why it should be an unavoidable and unresolvable paradox . Irony is a sentiment - situation ,,where one understands intuitively both the rightness or appropriateness ,of the thingie ,, and the inappropriate wrongness of the thingie at the same time. Some things are Ironic and unavoidably so. But usually the irony is due to preconceptions about what is right or wrong , expected or unexpected ,, leaving the resolution attainable. Same back at you , You have some fans , dont let em down, theyre nice people.

I quoted that to someone once and he responded " Who said that?,,,,, Probably some really meek guy."

Hey some folks believe in powerful govt. overriding the will of the peons in modern China and our own Founding fathers all felt that the general public couldnt handle the responsibilities wisely ,,, But Ahh, I fear I am again leading the thread astray by unanimous opinion. Case in point I guess Frankly I wouldve thought Cz would have loved ! our system

Hellooooo ... isnt anyone going to indicate they understand that the absence of evidence is not the absence of data?

Well Ok Tl ,,but if you look instead for self contradictions they are abundant. There is a chance though that you are making more of the pieces presented than the whole. And thats a plus. So be it.

'What is Three in the Morning?' asked Tzu Yu. 'A keeper of monkeys', replied Tzu Ch'i, 'said with regard to their rations of chestnuts that each monkey was to have three in the morning and four at night. But at this the monkeys were very angry, so the keeper said they might have four in the morning and three at night, with which arrangement they were all well pleased. The actual number of the chestnuts remained the same, but there was an adaptation to the likes and dislikes of those concerned. Such is the principle of putting onself into subjective relation with externals. 'How does the Sage seat himself by the sun and moon, and hold the universe in his grasp? He blends everything into one harmonious whole, rejecting the confusion of this and that. Rank and precedence, which the vulgar prize, the Sage stolidly ignores. The revolutions of ten thousand years leave his Unity unscathed. The universe itself may pass away, but he will flourish still. 'Who shall I employ as arbiter between us? If I employ some one who takes your view, he will side with you. How can such a one arbitrate between us? If I employ some one who takes my view, he will side with me. How can such a one arbitrate between us? And if I employ some one who either differs from, or agrees with, both of us, he will be equally unable to decide between us. Since then you, and I, and man, cannot decide, must we not depend upon Another? This stuff , very quickly selected , seems to indicate that He accepted there was a need for a wise leader , because people couldnt arbitate for themselves. He talks about the preferred qualities of keeping oneself a bit removed from the hubbub , and manipulating what one could,, to make the medicine go down. Im not seeing where he is significantly different from Lao yet. Is there a particular chapter that is more explicit which yall are thinking of? Would either of them consider our American system to be anarchy?

Dunno, I leave that people more suited to it.

You have GOT to be kidding!

Crude? What is crude? is that a dualist idea ? Hmm yes it is. But thats OK isnt it , having dualist ideas, like a division between form and emptiness , thats another polemic view! seems to me. In fact Taoism is rife with dualistic ideas as soon as 'one becomes Two'. Now some people take their interest way back all the way to a unity situation where they try to view everything all the same , undifferentiated , of exactly unbiased unformed purity... fine , but you cant live like that, you , the humanoid ,are not the completeness of the eternal Tao,, it is an impossible dream to successfully imitate the eternal Tao. IMO Because if one equates hot and cold , they burn up or freeze,, and ,, If they have no preference , there is nothing to direct them, they have no meaning or purpose unto themselves. again IMO ,,, In the mental stillness of meditation one can find relief though , from the stresses of having biases , and one can see the absurdity of some of their own opinions or sentiments. This aspect of unity therefore may interact with the world of polemics, neither really opposing. The amount of attention one gives to the unity idea or the polemic world varies , and thats all OK too.

The heavy handed style of nonrepresentative feudal govt- I picture they would have had in those days-, wouldnt suit me either. but Lao supported it?

Its funny-odd, Lack of coffee is one of the few things that doesnt make me crabby. ( yeah ,that title, Taomeow on coffee , really did look like it was about getting 'hyper'.) Like ...Julia child on crystal meth she cooked up .

Like what?

Yes you rene , Mh is more a generalized atheist with a fuzzy place on his heart for PT.

Were close on coffee , But bitter and partially bitter foods , there are plenty of vegetables, eggplant peppers onions garlic brassicas , beer, coffee , tea , spices . Its just that elsewhere they have no choice but to eat crappy bitter foods. given a choice , they wouldn't eat very differently, and it shows in places more affluent.

A conversation gets boring fast without a foil and faster yet without grounds to agree. Ill dtop back and observe a bit. I don't worry about fitting the label or mindsets for pts neither should you. But if its the closest label, you might as well use it occasionally when it will be understood. Away from here I'd rather just go with atheist. ( I would call you more of a Unitarian though I don't really know what implies) : They're just labels and only individuals really exist.

There are two main divisions of coffee Arabica which isn't much bitter and is usually darker And cheaper robusta which is more bitter and lighter if made to the same strength. Either if actually brought to full boiling point ,will leach off-tastes All coffee taste classifies as bitter since its not sweet sour salty or metallic. A small amount of milk and sugar round out the taste Imo but you don't have to agree If your preferred 'creamer' has hydrogenated veg oil that's unnatural . Just my two cents.

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So who are the temper mental Scientists ? The ones that decided mastadons ate mud?

Lemme guess , dinosaurs?

Well , I dont remember them all that well...