Stosh

If I accept religion as representing the opposite of materialism,the cookies crumble this way.. 1) Most americans believe in some deity and most Chinese are atheist, so the average westerner is more spiritual than an easterner. 2) If the goal of the practice of Neidan is to become a god,then Neidan is not palatable to westerners out of a desire to have an atheist spiritual practice. 3) Since I do not believe you or any body else is going to live past their death , Neidan only presents a possibility of prolonging life. This fear of death Christians wish to conquer as well, by imagining up a spirit -body, so it is the Eastern materialistic ideas which might make Neidan palatable to some westerners.

I am saying I believe everyone to already be aware that they are living thinking feeling creations in association with a physical parameter. Atheists I believe, are those who are not ascribing this spirit to a deity. Materialism , is the belief that all the world that exists as only physical parameters. ( So there are no true materialists, its just a handy term akin to atheism ) The Chinese like material wealth as much as anyone , it appears,, but this is not the materialism we are talking about , right?

This is not accurate, I, a westerner, can comprehend more than the material , everyone can ,and I don't accept the Neidan either. I think I can prove that Neidan is a Chinese practice primarily, and the purpose is to prolong life, which is a materialist goal. Care to challenge that?

I did a quickie calculation and fell for it too. Ha ha ha

A Very good post to you too, I really know where youre coming from Pilgrim.

He he he , getting old is a ..pain.

Life is always such a cherry pie that anyone suggesting otherwise MUST be nuts.

Good answer!

I had to think on this a bit , but if the implied question isnt rhetorical , I say that from a spiritual perspective , its not the physical which is the real , true or important stuff except that it is a sort of manifestation needed to have the spiritual world exist. The light and dark need each other to be comprehended. Parent hugs child, and although it is just a physical motion , it conveys meaning to them both. Recognizing that meaning as the important part , an insincere hug is trash .. other than it might be warmer than standing in the open. So youre looking at this from a spiritual perspective , as I see it, but youre not giving much credence to the sincerity of it , on their part. Since I cant know how much of the motion is sincere , I presume that life is always difficult , people have mixed feelings , and they are doing the best they can,, the best they know how. Judging the efforts to be crappy weak insincere insufficient and so forth is going to make you feel bummed about the relationships you think they have , so , remember that its the best they can do, and be merciful.

Life in any form is harsh on what a human being is.

Ok , then we can agree on that, good.

This part I can run with , but one cannot do a complete change of their being, according to TTC you have a basic nature .. um (the term might ziran or po , I don't speak Chinese) One might be very screwed up , and need a significant overhaul to get in touch with themselves and connect to the world around,, but there is , in each of us a core.

Ok, then what is your idea of peace according to TTC ?

If you forgive my bluntness, I don't care about these others right now, I'm just talking with you, Do you need a constant fix of change ? is this 'good' .... I don't think its the eastern view that the real desire is to be at unrest all the time , it is to find real peace. Virtue being , to find rest even as one proceeds through a life. While you do not have to abide by that perspective , I thought it should be delineated. Do you want peace ? balance , dynamic equilibrium? or constant change, which if ending at perfection, immediately disintegrates, once you find it.

What in contrast, is doing something? Changing? to what?

Perhaps , but there has long been an understood dichotomy between Daojia and daojiao. To me, the fluff is suggesting people need to learn how to melt , by osmosis.

Constancy , is their way of saying its dependable. For instance , we have natural laws like gravity , which never fail , and therefore they are constant. If one made an argument and it held true , no-matter what conditions were used to test it out , they would say that its constant. In western cross examination of a process for testing where we look for 'holes' in the argument. They are saying that there are no holes in the argument so it is constant . So ... The Wisdom of Dao is eternal , and objective , not transient or subjective.

I would put a disclaimer on that idea too.

Does not compute. All it seems described is to satisfy the need for relief by taking the path of least resistance... if a loved one dies what relief is suggested ? a harsh word is heard , what is the thing to do ?

Well, that's a very different way of looking at it. To me, It doesn't seem to suggest a resolution , of the negative emotions ,though , if valid , it does suggest a chain of causality. I don't know how this view could be employed in order to more effectively overcome 'negative emotions'.. what are you suggesting is the method of using this perspective?

Perceived external... or internal threat. One does not wish their sense of wellness , over time , to be diminished. ( including having such a diminution be expected as the new 'status quo' )

Not really ,, I'll rephrase,,,,, the reaction , .. negative emotions ,,,are there in a protective capacity.

Negative emotions are a defense against paradigms one does not wish to incorporate., sometimes for good reason, rather than against ones own energy.

The Arts under examination , are 2300 years old or so and doesn't speak to the intelligence of modern societies, nor is the smarts of modern society the creation or province of most of us. A relatively few individuals are responsible for the majority of advancement. Einstein came up with the emc2 thing, not me.. obviously .. nor did Hung lo come up with TTC.

Ditto, we are presented with An answer, and we are given a rationale for it. But it is not the only answer. Billions live out their lives contrary to the themes of Lao or Chuang or Ghandi or Buddha or any selected individual. You lay your bets and roll the dice...