Stosh

maybe newtaoist was rebelling against doing something hollow rather than sincere.

Is alcohol worshiping wisdom or hedonism?

You kinda need to decide whether you are worshiping something ..apart from yourself .. like a god , or whether you are investigating your inner self as in meditation dont you? I like that statue of Kali I keep seeing , the meaning goes something like this I read "Dont worry a way will be found through it with wisdom and dispassion" If it was for me I think a nice dark chunk of opal and a bonsai would go nice (yeah I know its japanese and australian and hindu stuff- so what, I say) Since my stuff is about experience and understanding Im not aiming at the worship of a god thing really.

If a person wanted to focus thier mind- energies on something- then the subject might reasonably be something which one naturally finds 'deep'. It could be a vase of dark water or a red rose in lucite...etc but I doubt it would be a breadbox. Though my opinions dont really go that way , I figure I would consider a geometric shape first as a starting point , and build on it over time with things of significance ( like a Christmas tree). Nobody said anything at reform T's because they are all trying to be pu -like a block of wood or not trying to be confrontational (while still holding on to all their biases) Maybe thats an angle on ph taoism but it seemed like pulling teeth instead IMO I thought Van Gogh was basically nuts and has an arsonist motif to many of his paintings On altars , I think of Queequeg , from Melville , his idol really only held significance when he was using it for his worship , so if someone wanted to worship something -the objects could be anything at all.

So be it . Ping was sitting on his favorite tree stump eating his curds and whey and looking at the clouds...

Only god is worthy ? Wow !

Its also about avoiding artiface , isnt it?

How can you expose frauds if you are a student needing a teacher ? Your views are already developed- even with 'false teachers' already. With distrust comes the burden of teaching oneself , doesnt it? And maybe you are doing well as it is. Posting what your beliefs are, exposes them to challenge challenge survived is validation isnt it?

I guess I was thinking in terms of melvilles poor devil of a sub-sub. Like I said ,I like metaphor , I wasnt blasting him for it, I guess we are just out of sync , Have a nice weekend.

Beware borrowed credibility. especially when the ' source ' drives a rolls and tells you you need to abandon your beliefs but listen to his

No I was just pointing to possible mutual ground , are you implying that You think the subject and my opinions should be taken else where because they arent Chinese enough ?

Dropping it as a concept , one regains both responsibility and possession of their fate. I dont see how it must make things lighter or heavier to bear, since responsibility and possession are 'concepts of arbitrary nature' illusions too -if you will. But one might feel less oppressed , which would be nice.

A point from which one gains traction ? rather than a negative spin. VERY sound Tao dude.

Freud says that we obscure from ourseves that which we find unpalatable so you and he may be in agreement... then again ,if its Not an unpleasant thinigie indicated you wouldnt have any reason to obscure it from yourself. Ive had dreams where I couldnt find a toilet , I woke up to realize that I needed to use one I dont consider that very deep confused symbolism.

Sounds more like you think he is getting to close to a valid perspective so its time to baffle him with B.S. The ol' undermine all beliefs thing

You feel you are overcoming a legacy from your mom. Thats my guess but really you shoul be the best decider of meaning since you have the most distinct understnding of your own symbolism

RE : Why Vmarcoian,, Its just a gentle tease Vm , at least you can be recognized for your style Does VMarco ever contradict Buddhism or the Tao? Occasionally , Tao , for Buddhism I dont want to judge. There is no call for me to comply with the ideas of Descartes, but , that being said , I already indicated much the same idea in another thread. And posed a question about the issue of corroboration , which seems to indicate a reality that we cant know directly but implies itself to all. "HOWEVER,...this cancer (meaning, a striving towards individualism, separation, and veiling of coherent light), can be dissolved,...instantly dissolved, by uncovering Consciousness of the Present." Go ahead ! dissolve me , I dare you. You show your individuality with every post

Perhaps. Good luck with that.

Well they fund our debt , and so we each have each other by the short hairs , I think we know that. Yeah both systems rely in disparity of wealth to a degree, luckily I guess , there is never a shortage of disparity of wealth. so rest easy

Like the haiku thing? stories take some investment to write up I wouldnt want to tangle mine ( any more than they would be inherently) imo

Sublimated nudity veiling , nice wording , and yes that sounds about right.. One hides who and what they are , to a degree -with good reason and suffer consequences in the form of alienation etc. But the alternative is complete exposure, which, also presents problem. Collectively -One presumably picks the best trade-off . But Dishonest at birth has a bit of Vmarcoian bombast to it.

Tao and Te are mutually complementary aspects of the whole , that is how they could be seen to share losses they dont 'run out of rain', one finally yields to the other to complete the whole cycle.

Well even the folks most supportive of either seem to be adopting the ways of the other, as in the current western trends toward spirituality- wellness , and the eastern trends toward materialism. Between the two trends it appears that western materialism is having a greater effect on the lives of those in the east than the ideas coming in from there do here.. If Wu ming and you are right on the cultural divide thing, we are seeing a similar battle today as the world becomes connected, and to me , it seems like western materialism is going to be the survivor albeit modified. Folk can say , "Oh it is just such a shame that the interference from the outside world precipitated the dissappearence of this rich cultural heritage to jungle tribes in the Amazon!" but its the folks of those tribes themselves who are deciding in favor of pennecillin versus jaguar -gall-bladder powder , or whatever useless folk remedies were used to salve the mind before there was a functional alternative. If you are talking about the communism versus capitalism 'pitting' when you refer to previous pitting, I agree yeah , very unneeded , fortunately it only took a few decades of relative deprivation to force a shift in policy, but I never have been of the opinion that the chinese people themselves were really geared in favor top down authority. Prosperity is a reward for folks being enabled to contribute thier best to a system and thier motivation includes their own wellbeing.

Proceeding from greek philosophy we created a complementary system to eastern philosophy. Together they do a nice sound job of covering the human experience.i just dont get why folks pit the two systems against each other either.

"I want you to know my understanding" he says in the very first few seconds. Later he says anybody that gives you a belief system shouldnt have credibility to you. what knowing of his understanding would not be affecting your beliefs. On consolation , it can be misplaced like anything else, as can abuse. How many cars was it that he owned ? To Osho "Why do you like your Rolls Royces so much? I have tried all kinds of cars; and even Rolls Royce has many types and I have tried them too. Their best is the Corniche, but it doesn't suit me. It is a question of my back. I need a certain kind of chair—I use only this chair. It has been made by my sannyasins exactly to give support to my back, because doctors have said that they cannot do anything more. Experts from England were called to India. They tried hard, and they said, "It is impossible. You will have to live with it." It was just a coincidence that one of the models of Rolls Royce, Silver Spur, suited me. The driver's seat in that car fits perfectly, gives me no trouble. Naturally, my people love…. They don't belong to me, those cars—nothing belongs to me. I am the poorest man in the whole world, living the richest life possible."