Stosh

Its a 'high bar' to meet ,when credulity is withheld , but no means to address the doubt is allowed. People in some cultures , wish to hold on to the belief systems of their own culture , I get that. The system as a whole may serve them well, and it doesn't mean they are dumb. But if people from this culture , just wish to be obstinate ,, to defy convention , for the sake of refuting their own people, ,, that ! - I don't put on the same plane. It just gets one labeled a kook. (Except ! that such persons, may understandably wish for a paradigm that they were not raised into.) I don't think one can successfully pretend , once they are socialized to Western thought , that they somehow can remove these mind structures by an act of allegiance -to some other culture. I Cannot see the world as being the playground of gods , that the physical laws are up for doubt, that Santa exists and so forth , like a cave person might. The closest I can do , is to find common ground.

So what feasible thing would 'make the cut' ?

We also wouldn't build the Brooklyn bridge as it was done when labor was cheaper , and faith in the tech was important to establish. Doubting "scientists" however opens up the possibility that there are large birds somewhere , that can take us to the moon Now , a round trip of approximately 200 miles.

Farther along in the article presented.... "First - the plans for the Saturn V DO still exist (despite internet rumors to the contrary), but as others have stated, some of the exact manufacturing processes used to make some of the parts were never written down. So we have the design of the part, but would have to re-create the process of making the part. If money were no object, and the objective was to re-create in exact detail, a perfect flying replica of the Saturn V, using genuine 1960's hardware - that would be a very very difficult and expensive task! Could it be done? Absolutely! "

These are logistical reasons , being proffered , it's not disproving of "the technology that got us there is still understood , and the same rocket could be built today, proving plausibility." Since the claim is not about lack of understanding the technology.

Thanks , and I will read it likewise.. but I 'warn' in advance , Scientific American doesn't endorse conclusions -it judges whether a paper is written according to proper method , and provides interest. One could submit a paper on the Yeti , and if it fits parameters , they would print it.

Since this is you half of the argument to make , rather than mine to hunt up , where did you read that?

Sticking to the subject.. what makes you think they cannot build the same rocket ? , (or find a big bird to ride on for that matter)

The basic principles of physics are believed because they are repeatable, the world is not chaos , the technology that got us there is still understood , and the same rocket could be built today, proving plausibility. I know people who worked on the space program , did testing on the rocks themselves, and while that itself doesn't 'prove' that the flight took place , it certainly puts the onus on refuting that it did. Basically everyone is being called liars dupes and idiots , who participated ,,so I wonder how this serves any purpose to have doubt in so much of society , for such a menial matter.

America hasn't changed , the world decided the relationship would be different , force your way across the border , set up EU to compete with the US as a trading block, expect the US to police the world for free... (well not exactly free, the idea is that each nation would bestow approval if their will be done.) Massage the ol' american ego, or stand up! with proud defiance !.. from behind some despotic or impoverished countries border. I think we should stop even attempting for world approval , its a suckers bet.

When one has no information , or rejects it, anything may seem plausible. Living at the shore , you can watch ships go over the horizon , and its perfectly natural to think the earth is not flat: and not knowing any problems that would arise , going to the moon , its quite plausible to think people Can indeed go there. Living by ones smarts is rarely done. I know a guy who appears to do that , one person , that's it. He is quite remarkable.

That guy Does have good energy. Nice clip.

Yes, it can be.. when dealing according to the goodness badness quotient... a sword pencil or tree can be said to have virtues as well. Characteristic traits , propensities blah blah blah. These two definitions can be blended.

Yep, thats what I think. Its disagreeing with the idea that everyone is stupid or misled if they dont choose emptiness or such. Its just that there is a price -was misspelled earlier, though it still fits- which folks may not wish to pay. We generally like and mostly approve of ourselves, our spouses , vices and virtues , yadda yadda.

The attitude is understood by me, I think we all have days when we feel like that , get tired of the way things are and push back. For me , it tends to happen when I just cant change some fact , that I feel that I should be able to , or that someone else should. Its a bit of defense when no defense satisfactory , is left. It Helps us maintain our shape -self image in the face of conflict, and most of us are best off , having an identity , drawing lines we won't cross, persevering , albeit - with discomfort at times. No biggie. I think the solution has been placed before you , to not contend with things you can't fix ,, to not maintain an ego ,, but there is certainly a price ,, you cant fix much , and the things you take pride in about yourself are sacrificed.

I haven't labeled you as an arsehole , I have no preset expectation that you will fail to meet a code of gentility which I approve of. In shorthand I do not think you a jerk , although I know this appellation is relative.;) in fact compared to me ... well , lets not go there.

I think not , the goodness status is relative to your opinions- about the virtue or lack thereof - of the car. For ex, if you have to take a bus , for lack of any car , even a piece of carp is a step up. ( Did that, been there, and it sucks) Though , One can from a 'sort of ' objective view make conclusions about which virtues make for a 'good' car. ( a societally approved general standard , (which is just kicking the can back a step ,,to the subjective opinions of a bunch of individuals , rather than a single one ,, which begs the question , who was it that finalized the definition where it is ? Merriam -Webster?) However , I think its done in the correct vein, to consider usages and applications of that which is judgmental, coming from context in the text , rather than assume that the word usage is identical to that which we would use now, to decide how the word used was meant when it was used. Connotations change. In fact , I think it was expressly intended , that we observe the usages in relation to the texts more broadly- which we might be speaking in relation to- , so as not to be confused . Words like heaven , wu wei , virtue, and so forth.

As yet , No rationale has been provided why one should not be either judgmental or, more broadly ,speaking, a jerk, to others ,,( if there are others to be a jerk to).

As this quote suggests , there has been a mission creep event. Daobums has always had means to deal with crazy style posts, that's nothing new ,, but what is becoming in question is whether political discussion fits with the spiritual theme that management and some us peons want to impose uniformly across the site. Those participating in the Brexit thread , should be equally concerned that you too will be railroaded into only discussing approved content being considered spiritualish enough. There is a handy scapegoat, and that's our current president , who's actions are described in all sorts of derogatory terms far out of proportion with their impact , and began before he was even inaugurated ! Those supportive of the president have been exercising a huge amount of effort to keep the conversation 'above the belt' but it appears management has become contaminated with this idea that in order to force Daobums to remain what they envisioned , the threads generating so much participation are not welcome, in that instead of being esoteric in nature , deal with real life issues. Its a pity. This site has always been recognized as loose and outspoken , as opposed to being some kind of imitation of a sangha. It has its worth as such.

Whats the text where it describes Chuangs inability to find anyone to talk with after the death of Hui?

Its all the fault of what we call democrats, an epidemic for sure.

Whos looking ?

Supposedly, Theres also a inverted possibility ! Rare and mysterious , when answers are forthright and genuine , reflecting unvarnished truth.

Yep

Youre inventing stuff , but without daobums I lose mostly a pastime ,and some contact with some folks I like. Its not my anchor. .. and your answer was crafted faulty so as to not get the point that both are tools for cultivating although one is gentle and the other rough, but yeah, if the effect of your Practice doesnt extend beyond the books or teacher you parrot, its nothing.