Stosh

If there is a desirable 'way out' then I am sure some folks somewhere do find it and so , with any hole in the bucket , eventually all will drain through Stosh

Us godless atheists may not start as much trouble but we do know how to finish it. Stosh

The idea that I would have to keep building on previous lives That the lessons both positive and negative would keep intruding on fresh attempts .. just doesnt appeal to me. I much better like the idea that each shot would be a clean break a fresh start , entirely free of my old identities and hang-ups maybe each rebirth, I am unburdened maybe each other person, is also me which would mean that my 'progress' would be both inevitable and impossible I just like the idea of experiencing ones life or lives with as little burden and as much satisfaction as can beStosh

I wouldnt know other than speculatively , I mean that these biases play in over periods of time and over time do they become the new standard. I wouldnt be surprised at all if meditative techniques were an exception to the point, but there are still trends that may vary over time , such as zazen , hanging around in caves , meditating on compassion , or meditating without focus. I figure others like yourself or Chidragon or Dawei or anamatva etc would have more insight on it ( and the collected comparisons-variations might make a neat thread of its own!) By the way , cool avatar! Stosh

Since there are multiple reasons for religions , there are multiple aspects to consider when deciding on the "virtue" of having one Folks tend to 'cherry-pick' from the associated teachings and thereby the practice diverges from them the meaning of wu wei , is a perfect example Under a religious banner many folks find social cohesion which may or may not revolve around being nice to other groups but has value to the individuals participating. Also folks may find meaning in their lives, which again, doesnt mean they will be socially nicer , but may make them happier Its a mixed bag of benefits The same irony of the shift from pacifism of Jesus, to the Crusades, and-or then to the Amish, etc Holds for Tao as well in my opinion, Starting with a unity , dividing into , yin and yang which were complimentary and equal , to a preference for Yin definition of virtue ( which is at odds with harmonic balance) Is as obvious as starting with Wei wu wei ,and ending up with just Wu wei. Ultimately religious practice takes on the preferences and biases of a people , and standardizes it,more so ,than IT molds the people to the original standard. Stosh Stosh

I had to google it , The connotations didnt seem to imply faith as I read it and Im not a man of religious faith so I translated it though my own lens Vive the difference Stosh

Quote from GrandMaster P If we didn't play music during class the only musical acccompaniment would be gentle farts. It's healthy.

I was hoping for all four to be good ones Batting 250 is passing grade though Stosh

You are adding to an interesting thread , and if Stimpy is Ok with continuation I would add ,,,folks , maybe not caring or taking seriously your revelations visibly , doesnt imply that they would not benefit reading it. Stosh

You are born into a situation , your nature deals a hand You play your cards as best you can and your destiny finds you Thats the fate of any man Stosh

Et isnt on solid ground there. My own answer ,, Depends on what you think you actually are ,doesnt it? Are you a body ? Are you a collection of habits and attitudes? Are you an individual real and truly? Are you a persistent vortex in a turbulent sea?(metaphorically speaking) The future hasnt been written yet the past is written in stone and yet the future ...will come to be anyway and the past is as gone as gone can be Stosh

Oh , bother ! Stosh

Lots of similarity in them thar things though. Stosh

Dude Im not hostile to you either! You are reading into the text more negativity than is being offered. Stosh What would Pooh say ? Probably , Oh bother. and then he would move on to cottleston pie.

Yes ,He seems to be challenging your argument , and that might offend you , but his words do not appear to be crossing any line , so the offense is really just yours. First person to whine, is not always the person who is right. There is, and always will be contention on such a forum. Make a better argument. Stosh

From wikipedia Proselytizing (//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8a/Loudspeaker.svg/11px-Loudspeaker.svg.png /ˈprɒsɨlɨtaɪzɨŋ/) is the act of attempting to convert people to another religion or opinion. The word proselytize is derived ultimately from the Greek language prefix προσ- (toward) and the verb ἔρχομαι (to come) in the form of προσήλυτος (a new comer).[1] Historically in the Koine Greek Septuagint and New Testament, the word proselyte denoted a gentile who was considering conversion to Judaism. Though the word proselytism originally referred to Early Christianity (and earlier Gentiles), it now refers to any religions' or religious individuals' attempts to convert people to their beliefs or even any attempt to convert people to another point of view, religious or not. Thats in response to an earlier rhetorical question , but It doesnt mean that the contributions of non taoists are verboten. Yet it still seems an appropriate response when someone says they have no real interest in Taoism or gaining from it ... in that situation the information is really only intended to go one way, from the person who claims his humility to the person who has it. Stosh

Thats very interesting , and may be true, i dont contest it , it makes sense It also allows me to dissect some innocent like a laboratory frog , or blow up a school bus as long as I can say "Hey Its just business, Nothing personal" Stosh

Thanks for actually saying so. Stosh

Sorry I believe the Chinese debt holding thing is rather a bogus perception which Romney 'used' rather than corrected. The vast majority of our debt is to american individuals , only 8 percent is held by China. There is no villainy in the debt holding , there is irresponsibility by the american public to understand that their champions are not managing money well and in not understanding that bouncing back and forth between the two parties is not enough choice. Moreover loyalty to either party is essentially an act of ignorance, sometimes one should spend -creating debt-, and sometimes one should rein in spending and pay off debt. One recipe for all situations creates bad results. Holding loyalty to a party, rather than holding loyalty to all the people( by demanding honesty and responsibility by those who are supposed to lead ) is beginning to shred the fabric of our fortunes. Folks tune in to hear hate mongers , or to newscasts which are just gossipy speculations on candidates body language , or whether they think other people were impressed by some quip or verbal slip. We americans are going to reap what we sowed. Stosh

Really nifty and unique Mh I think it was in a Kurt Vonnegut book, where god had created man and each day when man woke up, God waited in anticipation to hear what man was going to say , and was always pleased by his own surprise. Marble gardens ponds have that trait too. Stosh

Thanks , now I can see its a nice quote Have a great weekend Stosh

I think I need glasses Stosh

Yes Et the tendency is, for me and most ,to jump up on a soap box ,and blurt out into the virtual world what it is we think. Wishing to reach out beyond our own skin ,, its just human nature ,, and its not a bad thing Its a bit inherent to the system that things are such as they are. You are pounding folks over the head with views that dont fit the paradigms they already have. ( Ive done some of that myself ) Stosh

Viator , If you have been ,to a degree, religiously Taoist ,, what is it that characterizes that aspect? Stosh

The nearly invisible bubble seems an apt avatar. Stosh