Stosh

Well that may be true , but then again, there are manipulative adults who do things with hostile intent, and there are kids that do things that some consider evil. I clearly remember dumping a chicken leg behind the couch once... Stosh

Hey Now You guys are picking on me! Cd said once that a person should eat yang foods to stimulate yin in opposition to it. I asked Him to go on but he had said what he wanted at that point. ( I always cook my watermelons on an open fire anyway) Like I said , I dont go by that stuff , the natural food of humans is low in grains like corn wheat and rice. Pre-agricultural humans were healthier and even taller than post adoption of grains as a food staple. The only reasons why we eat that stuff AS STAPLES is that it preserves well , allowing for high population densities. Obesity , diabetes, heart disease, constipation, and grumpiness are the legacy. If Lao liked natural stuff , you should switch to a low carb diet too. So There! Stosh

Yeah thats the saying , but I think I prefer to keep my enemies far far away and to a minimum in number Stosh

Goodmorning , Last night I was reading your old Neitche thread , that was a really good thread you had going. I liked the shepherding process you were doing for it. It reminds me of the Chuang thread and it fits with a theme of wanting to stay on topic , which I usually dont do for long , but can appreciate. Do you want this thread to stick to topic or is it as much an invitation to just BS? Stosh

I am under the impression that Chidragon would suggest fighting fire with fire foodwise. but I dont personally go by that stuff. Emphasize protein fat and vegetables , reduce the carbs close to zero. If you must eat carbs eat beans. Stosh

As I read it ,the words reading you thing , was more in line with some cosmic consciousness which invalidated consideration of myself as an individual, or it was just a flip of perspective from which nothing really can be learned , (other than reading creditable meaning into the phrase.) Stosh

If one isnt trying to be too literal its not much of a leap to say that society can be crazier than the individuals in it. When one averages the number of people in a family it turns out to be a decimal rather than reflect individuals as whole persons. When societies make decisions, the sum total decision can be to get into trillion dollar debt athough individuals know that is stupid. The individuals would-could be compensating more responsively to the debt as they went whereas in the case of our national budget everyone expects someone else to pay for it. A restaurant makes a meal or a TV show is produced , the result is intended to suit a broad audience and so the contents end up suiting the lowest common denominator,, hence you get tasteless food and garbage movies because it yeilds a saleable product rather than a really good one. Folks crowded toether in unnatural settings like cities commit far more crimes per capita and stampede over one another at soccer matches ,, these are behaviors truly rare in small communities , they are manifestations of society which has a scale dynamic very unlike individuals dynamic. Counting crazy people to see if the the group dynamic is reasonable and wholesome and sustainable ... is not recognizing that there are different levels on the social stage. Stosh

You may be right about that. Stosh

I stand corrected , mindful subjective distortion it is ( I just dont know what that is- generally applied ) I flipped the letters like that too, when I was a kid it still seems sort of arbitrary to depict different letters the same except for orientation. Stosh

Getting everybody at the UN to shut up would be a miracle indeed! Stosh

Thats just terriffic !! Its like nothing at all is wrong with the spelling ! But its just a reading skill , nothing more nothing less. Very cool though ! It could also mean I am subject to a great deal of subjective perception , couldnt it? Stosh

Shanlung , To defy the cone of silence , I comment only,, Its an interesting story , a string of personal experiences shared and what argument could I have with it? What support could I lend it ? It is complete. Stosh

Its consistent with examining the paradigms one operates by so I like it but ,yes, its also sometimes difficult to rewrite the lessons one has learned Visualizing possibilities makes them more probable Of course its tough to say what perfection of self is like and if the changes the folks made really represents improvement or not -long term. Stosh

If you choose to check out the sun you would get more sleep.

If you are saying that ... I paraphrase -without the confused and biased illusions folks ordinarily walk around with one is better able to assess things best - I agree with that heartily (again) Stosh

Thats a well said point. Stosh

Mine either But its something I feel that the Taoist philosophy teaches-offers So it makes more sense for me to pay attention to this thing that doesnt come easy than it would to pay attention to something I had in abundance. Im sure youve heard of spirit guides in North american indian culture .. What Ive read on that, was the spirit guide wasnt supposed to be a characterization of what you were already were prone to,,, but it was a lesson-teacher for those areas where one came up wanting. Also during a persons life , a person might have several spirit guides from which one could learn new stuff. ( whether these things were archetypal imagery or not ,doesnt really make a difference to me) There may just be things you or I may never accept , but to the degree one CAN find acceptance , (at least enough to put stuff behind us) the more benefitted we are. And please understand I am not saying either the word 'condone' or excuse. My personal experience is that its helped me cool my hot head,( but since that really just falls into the realm of testimonial,, I dont expect it would weigh much on the scales of reason.) Stosh

Or the moon looks like a face Stosh

Its the result of angst with the palpable situation of understanding that the beauty of the stars is within you that the space and silence is also within you that there is no meaning and no context fears arise in being alone And men create gods Stosh

Interesting , Ill have to re read it after work How do you think it might apply to approval seeking ? Stosh

Yeah I suppose one could call it validation, but if the intent is really just to spread what we see as true rather than base our esteem of our beliefs of ourselves on the response , validation is just a possible outcome of the discussion. Both of us have views which differ from standard so the liklihood of validation is remote relative to the dissent we are much more likely to see. Discrediting the other side can take two forms , one is to undermine even what is true in order to "win" the other is just to respond against what we consider untrue. Lets hope that we dont get confused and do the first form. I may have not spoken well , the right and wrong that I was referring to is emotionally based judgement about what behaviors are to be encouraged or promoted or justified. There is also incorrect and correct which arent very subjective but do get mixed up with right and wrong. Stosh

Im not even sure there is a "state of wu wei" that a person can be in. Right now Im thinking that wu wei clearly looked at , is just a term used in a much longer discussion on virtues , and is used as a general label for behaviors that are consistant with the description. I use the term too , but I dont think its some altered state of awareness. But suspending that issue for the time being , yes the term 'beyond good and evil' seems an appropriate one (although I have not read the book.) Making value judgements generally doesnt lead to dispassion Dispassion helps a person find acceptance And If there is a wu wei state its going to lie in acceptance just as Gotama B. suggested ... We tend to make ourselves unhappy and dissatisfied the remedy , is to stop doing that. Stosh

There is no right or wrong that is not subjective opinion , There are no such things as right and duty that are not subjective opinion You are pointing at a reasonable arbiter of virtue though , in that virtue would be in sustainable life ways. But the reason why folks lie , have anger, hate, forget things, and have vices. is because there is adaptive advantage in having those traits. That is fodder for many threads, and I figure you disagree enough on that to require long discussions. We can do that when it arises , but this was about approval seeking and wu wei so we should probably let that discussion resume , Yes? Stosh

To do what needs to be done , from the word "need" still stipulates subjective opinion . If you want to pretend you dont think in wu wei go right ahead and pretend that. Stosh

Well , for following Tao that sure is an important question ! But I personally figure that line to be very blurry. There appears to be conceptry and behavior patterns which exist in us inherently but are not manifest until we deal with the world in a relatively 'normal' way. For instance learning of language is expected and easy for most of us. Parents speak ,and the kids pick it up right along with grammar and syntax . Go past a certain age without the exposure to spoken language and forever that child will have difficulty with speech. The language itself is not predetermined like dogs always barking. It could be any language ! any words, any vocal sounds even! Another example is that Its just human nature to walk upright , to develop concepts like good and evil maybe even to look for spiritual inspiration. But the particulars of what a person finally assimilates are often unique. It is our interaction with the external objective world in a social context which finalizes our development in a way which fits the world. I liken it to shelves in a store room , the shelves are labelled , there are particular KINDS of things that will end up on particular shelves , but the exact contents will vary in the end. Thats one reason why I dont care for that nature non-nature division. I just dont think there is a clear dividing line between them. My solution is to look at the paradigms of behavior we have picked up and personally assess as adults , which of them are doing us good and which of them are bad paradigms learned too well. Like approval seeking Stosh Have a nice weekend