Stosh

On the bright side,I figure a short life expectancy would be advantageous for rapid turnover of samsara cycles and you could zip your way up the food chain. (hmmm, ,I wonder if there is a way to slip the dispatcher a few karmic bucks. I need to check out the book of the dead. Stosh

Thanks for the luck but I am in an apt rather than house now, the exposure is dark in the winter and hot as hades in the summer, so although I am good with plants, its an uphill climb for anything other than cacti right now, for me. Im still impressed though. Stosh

Deset eagle , Are these shots all your own? (same question to everyone else, actually -on most) Stosh

?? How the heck do you still have blooms in july.?? Or are they not still blooming. I planted some , they bloomed a week or so and that was it, then the rest of the year they looked like grass that needed mowing. Stosh

You do know rabbits eat their own poop right? I think it would be nice to return as a whale. Stosh

I realized recently some things which I need to digest. please just carry on. Stosh Ps have a nice weekend.

Now that you mention it , my boss does that too! but he isnt Korean and it seems more often Hmmmmmm

Well to me , somebody said , "you can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar" And I said , "I am not trying to catch any flies.(figuratively or otherwise" Pause... I considered to myself ,, Then why am I using vinegar either? Truth is , maybe like yourself, I am just not seeing anything legitimately NEW in any of the posts. They may shift my emphasis a tad here and there, or remind me of stuff I had let slide, but it just aint anything fitting the title, ' NEW things I actually need to know' I read winnie the pooh last night , It has been many moons. I still love the illustrations.,,and I see some stuff I never understood to be in it. But its not NEW. Maybe we do learn all the really important stuff we ever will by the age of six or so (and then start forgetting it) I was a very quiet, serious, and honorable kid, with too many concerns. Anyway if you want to be tested you are going about it in the wrong way, you need to piss folks off more , like Tsun tsu said , if you wish to move your enemy, offer him something he wont refuse. ( or was that the Godfather??) or Toss up a thread on something you want to be challenged , and be a bit defiant about it. ( or you can just ask me ) Thing is ,you cant gather a good head of steam in sound byte format and still stick to the other point of the thread . Just my opinion. Stosh

My take wasnt so much that Lao wanted diversity,per se, it seemed to me that he felt that there was a natural conformity common to people living naturally.. there would still be individual differences, but on a basic level he didnt seem to think those differences substantially divisive. Like here in the US we can benefit from individual diversity , but there is a homogenaity natural to human aspirations. In the east it seems like there was a more intentional aspiration for conformity. Until just a short while ago I hadnt realized that I had been posting in a manner to test folks ideas actively. It is a western style approach to logic-learning. (If you can punch a hole in an idea then it isnt reliable) Im working on an alternative. Stosh

Ok, I followed the directions, It looks meaningless to me but good luck to you with your method. Stosh

Are you saying outright that there is no factual basis on which you are believing this stuff?

Im not clear on what the 'dangerous' aspect of that attitude is either. I know plenty of Christians who might also fall into that category of mindset. They seem OK Stosh

More like 'cater to it'.

I try to avoid normal behaving, it is too boring in my view. Too repetetive. Normal behavior is unavoidable , In fact I'd say that is was an example of suffering and indicative of desiring of the world to be what it isnt to try to avoid it (not to mention that it is an example of subjective illusion to classify some stuff as normal and other stuff as not) For example, some people need to get from A to C by crossing B. You do it to. Dont avoid admitting it. Honesty is the best policy... ( ususally) Besides , the premise of the thread is that the important bit is at B not at C Stosh

Oh I think you got it exactly right. A person can boggle around with the verbiage and its good fun and its fun to speculate about the sliding scale of perspective we call time But when you come back to normal behaving You are going to fall right back into the same progressive view of time that the rest of us learned to use , why ? because its functional! You are going to microwave that lunch correctly turn the key after you get into the car, not before ..etc. Ive read other folks talking about this alternative view of time and I think it serves no purpose whatsoever!(other than for fun or astrophysics) If the ancients felt it reasonable to suggest that one nip things in the bud before they became big problems And they could tell me that a trip of a thousand miles starts with the first step Then they had exactly the same view of time as I , you , Twinner ,and everybody else. So there! Stosh

Counting pluses and minuses ? seriously ? What if you have a big plus but a few minuses on one side, and then you several small plusses and less minuses on the other side? And then your lady inserts her 2 cents... Gimme a break! Just 'be a man' and pick one. Stosh

The present is built on the past and preludes the future If you don't believe that , shave your head now, Look at your head in the now that we call tomorrow today and you will see that during the yesterday from the then now that you shaved your head then not now. Stosh

Tao is both easy and difficult it is fraught with irony and its huge in its scope Take it slowly intellectually but at the same time ,mean time , consider what you do that is swimming upstream consider what you might be doing that is self defeating and then consider why you do those things emphasizing what brings you to feeling peace and harmony about yourself , and the situations that you are finding yourself in as opposed to continuing the behaviors that do the reverse. If you do that , to WHATEVER degree that you do that , YOU WILL HAVE BENEFITTED YOURSELF, ( and the book may start to make better sense without much effort invested at all) Stosh

Steve nailed that down as tight as a ducks ,, vent. ( I have pictures ,,,it's really thorough.)

IMHO There is no way to be sure a decision is going to be a good one. Sometimes one zigs when they shoulda zagged but it works out great other times , not so much Tao suggests you can be happy regardless since your internal state is only loosely connected to the world 'Outside' Certainty would suck, just as much as chaos. Shen considered it and the derogatory term for the idea was "the Dao of the dead" Besides , whats so bad about your subconscious? Your awareness may not be present in it but that doesnt mean its an idiot. (but it could be, I admit,,,) Stosh

K, put it this way, 1 I have read that philosophically , Lao was more inclined to feel that asserting what a thing was not, was logically more accurate than to assert that which it was. 2 Taoism plays into a variety of religious traditions which are not uniform in respect to Lao tsu or each other. So if there is no grouping that you feel your beliefs fit better then it would be most logical to say that Tao (in a broader interpretation) includes you. I know Catholics , that confidently call themselves Catholics who do not have the core belliefs of the church. I know protestants who arent aware of the simplest facts about the bible they say they believe in absolutely.. The reasons why most folks are convinced of 'who they group best with' think so because someone who seems to be 'on the inside' included them, such as parents priests etc.. not!.because they were adherent to the conceptry of the belief system itself. Jesus was clearly pacifist , clearly advocated the better spiritual position of poverty clearly wanted to bring his following into the Jewish faith etc. Yet the majority of followers of his church do not agree !! I dont remember if it was Chuang Tzu or Lao tzu Who made a logical argument relating to Who is qualified to judge "between two arguing parties". The person in question judging would just represent another persons bias rather than the original biases of the parties. What I am getting at is, that although folks like you and I may not be the poster children of Laoist Daoism , Who cares? Stosh PS. " Consider yourself ... ... Consider yourself part of the family. I've taken to you so strong. It's clear, we're, going to get along. ( from Oliver Twist , and aint that a better platform for grouping folks?)

Sure, I think that makes good sense. That is ,if it is the discipline which teaches the lesson. If enlightenment teaches the lesson then it wouldnt. I picture that remembering the ideas when they are needed , obviates the need for discipline to the degree that they are felt , maybe the 'discipline part'- the faith that it is 'right" ..supplements it. Stosh

Ok thats good , I like it. somehow its got me thinking of that Kenny Rogers song You got to know when to hold up know when to fold up know when to walk away and when to run...

Temperment-wise ,, if someone was sagelike they wouldnt require any discipline to maintain their cool, not needing to preserve their ego view not needing to direct the course of events equally at peace whatever the circumstance viewing physical reality as a straw dog not fearing for their own wellbeing they would not be subject to the stress in the first place. Stosh

A person who pursues his peace rather than pursues the paradigms of his discontent is following the rationale of Taoism Qualities are subjective illusion Yes I think I am one ,but not as avid as perhaps would be self advantageous. We keep our self defeating paradigms because, even though the illusion is subjective, it is still powerful The eternal tao doent give a hoot whether we try to follow taoist methods or not. Folks who do not consider themselves taoist are just as 'valid' as we are. The ttc hints at the things which can bring folks to their peace but it is like a dictionary telling folks what words are real or not. It is the language which determines what should be in the book. And if the book is helpful it remains so only as long as it reflects that which independently IS. just my opinion, since you asked Stosh