Stosh

Just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in.

Thanks ..osprey though Unfortunately injured flying into an invisible wire. Stosh

Try certain instead. I go back to the ether from whence I came! 'Poof'

Do you mean that later post where a person , (me), to the shock of all admits he is fallible, though he knows better? Like I think I said way back,, Its far easier to learn a deep difficult thing and abandon it Than it is to learn an easy simple thing and keep to it. Don't add salt unless it improves the taste. Its supposed to stand on its own regardless of meagre me! If my mom told me to 'play nice', mind my manners, And if somebody else told me not to act like an idiot, or advised me to chill out, wouldnt it be as wise as when Lao tzu might have said such a thing? I think it is. About bitching at stuff beyond your control, I didnt see anywhere in the ttc any direct reference to that habit or the peeing on ones hands thing, so some stuff is left to personal discretion You told me about treating the manifest world as a straw dog,,, Not a bad idea if you can keep it going.. but the real world has a great deal of power to influence us we are just geared for for it to do just that! If it didn't, we would fall out of touch and fail ourselves in it. Anyway,, If its really much of a disturbance to you ( the internal dialog of complaint) AND you wanted some know it all to point out to you what you already know,, Ill volunteer for that. Stop it. Pick one.. You allow it to bother you because you think That it makes some sort of difference in the outcome in some karmic way ( which it doesnt ) OR that your upset indicates your dedication and concern ( which it does, but since it isnt effective,,,just who is it you think you are impressing? -Not me.) Or you have a backwards idea that the habit is an example of "blowing off steam" (Which it isnt , it just fuels the fire the more you dwell on it) OR you are frustrated that you could work things better if you had the power to. (which could be true, but do you want the whole world as your personal responsibility?) If I didnt put my finger on the issue or close to it I would be surprised. Speaking figuratively, There are enough demons for each of us to have our very own. Name your personal 'demons' , and let them go. ( sometimes they hang around but they usually get the idea after a bit) Two of mine ? Bulldog and Blabbermouth , They are hanging around less lately , I only see them about once a week now. It takes time, there are no miracles that ever happen. Stosh

Probably close to not at all :) Its just an elusive dream. In fact I debated whether to put that word in The sentiment was that if you aim for something and continually miss ,,you end up orbiting but if you think I should remove it I will Thanks for the nice words Stosh

Thats a rare attitude! I am serious though , I have gotten too involved with the threads Its like throwing sticks for a dog , he runs after it. I finally read a book that clarified where other folks were coming from I guess it was the essence of what I wanted to know. I really feel pretty well answered and satisfied Except for one thing, which I dont want to elaborate on, because I dont want to interfere with it. There are other virtues listed in the hua hu ching but I sat and considered just the 'moderation'strategy alone that you mentioned it is actually, taken to a thorough degree, a quite reasonable overall attitude to have. My rule goes like this .. Move unerringly toward my own peace, rather than generate and perpetuate the paradigms of my own discontent. If I could make a habit of that , Then I would have the thing embraced. Stosh

Your patience is a virtue I need to cultivate. Id rather someone else said this stuff. I cause myself enough grief Stosh

There is no wider stuff happening, there is a lot of stuff inserted in the old writings which was meant to wear down the mind and make a person amenable to subsequent reasonable statements. Thats why so much of it is self contradictory or inactionable. If someone said "Be nice to one another." it wouldnt look wise standing alone, even if it was wise. The benefits of spiriual behavior are the likely outcomes of the virtuous behavior itself. If one doesnt put oneself in contention with others, then there is a subsequent peaceful situation as your benefit. If you refrain from interfering in other folks business, you have not shouldered their problems. Etc. Like Chi dragon suggested (more or less), live wu wei fashion -(to have the benefits of wu wei.) I dismissed it at the time , it was too simple, I needed more direction as to what that meant. Now that I have found out what the term means, I see that it IS the essence of the teachings. Ignore the snakeoil. Stosh

Dude , you arent presenting yourself as a threat in this post , but it aint invisible either. Equating unnoticed with invisble is a false equation. Invisible means that even if it was looked for ,it would be unseeable, in vernacular speech. Sure ,sometimes a person can pass 'below the radar', but a person can still represent a threat from a hidden position as well. Its just a false equation. Like I said earlier, animals arent in the business of hiding unless they are in fear (or are presenting a surprise attack). The dude shouldnt skulk about like a frightened or hostile animal (unless he is a frightened animal, or is about to strike..then it would be appropriate) Doing such as a habit would put folks off, and in so doing one would be self defeating. Dont believe that, try sneaking around, and see how popular that is. There is a very clear point in the TTC and that is social relationships are one of the most important aspects to finding personal peace. Dont act like a countertop. Stosh

What comes to mind is an episode on Seinfeld Kramer is pretending to be an automated phone answering system Moviephone In the end he breaks with the charade and says "Why don't you just TELL me what movie you want to see?" Stosh:)

Thanks for calling it heavy But I doubt its mine I was reading some stuff recently and finally came to a synthesis of what a lot of folks have been saying for a long time. (It never was rocket surgery after all!) and yep I figure like you that the tao has lots and lots of potential both our own personal bit of it and Tao at large. ( at least if I assume I know what you are saying, thats what I think, then again the abbreviated and muddled sentences I keep reading left and right, leaves me in doubt that anyone here understands english grammar. Dont you start! Stosh

Emptiness is a situation of potential potential of whatever could be When one begins to draw a form from the potential it negates all the other possibilities At peace one isnt drawing the paradigms that exclude or motivate away from peace. One is open to what could be, but is satisfied. Stosh

If a man , any man, said, stop fighting with one another and play nice and another said Dont get your panties in a wad, you are driving yourself nuts and yet another said take it easy, accept what is would not these things also fit 'wu wei'? Stosh

A lie is an attempt to avoid the social or personal consequence of a truth When a liar tells the truth to enable a lie , the truth becomes part lie when a truth teller lies to tell a truth , he becomes a liar and then the truth is part lie. There is no noble versus liar inherently there is only what we choose to do and why we do it. Just as there is no good or bad, there is only truth and the way we relate to it. If we err , and did not attempt to evade the consequence of truth then we do not lie , it is just error. It is easier to trust after spotting an error, than after scenting a lie. Stosh

I thought that in gaining Tao-peace -unity each of the subjects addressed were physical analogy, it is not the only chapter that this fits well for. Gaining the Tao... The sight became clear the body frame became stable the lungs became strong the bowels moved well the reproductive organs became fertile the mind-brain became clear as they were designed to be Stosh

Can't the moderators pin each of the chapters in order? Maybe fill them later?

Ok yes, there are arbitrary points. I just overlooked stuff like the shape of folks hats what they eat and what days of the week they consider holy. You are correct and I withdraw my objection. I missed your point. Stosh

You are wise sir , I am not in a playful mood. I have much to think about. Stosh

Assholes are just part of the general human condition where would we be without them? I have seen the enemy, and he is me!

No they are not arbitrary, which is why folks see similarity between the belief systems existant. There are spiritual questions folk want answered, what is meaning in their life and world. what are the origins and parameters of the world , how are they to address the realities they face,etc The human condition is eternal, and we always will need operational paradigms to function, and so the search for the answers is and always will be much like you see it now. The heroes and villains names change, and over long time even the paradigms of many gods versus one, or none, changes. But regardless of that,there is a strong social tendency which religions satisfy. though , yes ,it does help to get everyone on the same page (crowd control) And while such paradigms are unreal in that they are subjective, the direct experience of that which is objectively "real" is forever beyond our grasp (as operational humans)... (so belief systems are not the impediment) the impediment is that the human mind is subjective and only 'real' in its own subjective reality. Stosh

I am now reading the Hua hu Ching, It is clarifying a great deal. I get your point, whether I will do it, is another battle. Yes, the message is not that they can play this game and win. It is a simple message. Events come to us whether we wish those things to come or not, and we must deal with them, if that is surrender , so be it. Stosh

Thanks for the clarification. It is a good thing for me to meditate on, and work on. My reaction , too often is, to indicate to the slapper what a slap is like, on the recieving end. But often enough I absorb it. Thats fine most of the time, unless It would end up being an ongoing issue. Deflecting is an option I usually find distasteful for some reason, Its like being pushed into a lie, participating in one condoning the slap. No doubt about it I would rather slug it out and lose ,than kiss-up. and even after a loss , the slapper is looking at the same option, slug it out. Like I said , its a thing I work on and make slow progress at. Stosh

I dont know which thing you might be referring to ,, but all the same I believe it! Stosh

She looks startlingly like your avatar:)

I can see that point , yeah I can be aggressive at times , I never paid it much attention because I am not hostile,, seriously! Heck! I always considered myself one of the most easy going gentle natured people I knew! Folks who know me ,have laughed ,and informed me, it wasnt the case. I still find it hard to believe, but I guess it is so. Lately I try to leave funny stuff- for other folks to come up with. Someone usually supplies it, and I get to enjoy it too. But even when it doesnt show up, nothing much is lost. Humor sits at the border of what we consider correct and incorrect right and wrong proper and improper. Sensing the truth of both simultaneously , we laugh. I picked up a new copy of the TTC by Hua Ching ni,and was reading it last night. Somehow everything looks different this time. Stosh