Stosh

Speaking for myself ,I dont hate you. I figure you had a dream ,for that mental object to constitute proof, you should require of yourself some indepemdent evidence that the conclusion you reached ,is indeed memory of a real event and conclusively not dream.

Absolutely. If he wants, he can lord it over his personal practice thread , and wouldn't hear a peep from me. But in the open sections he is outlining a selective 'right to speak' which doesn't exclude himself. If,, I think the right to speak should only be for those who can prove they are enlightened , well then he can't speak either. And I can justify it that if a person hasn't made it across themselves they they cant say they know the right way to get across. You might as well require the whole thread to be in Sanskrit. No English allowed , with a justification that it confers an expectation that the person is fluent in the original lingo. Never-mind the ignoring of various points which is a disrespect in itself. " elevate the consciousness and knowledge of all participants " !!! Pfft ! I repeat , If one cannot explain nor refute the points of even the the inexpert , then that one has no business saying 'boo'.

I was addressing whether NEED exists for humans to try to get to nirvana , and feel that there would be no 'need' that was unsatisfied , if it has been done ..on all of our behalf. That a person may still desire to apprehend that state is still an individual decision, but I have read it said that this desire in itself can be understood as an impediment to 'getting there'. If a tree falls in the forest , and I am not there to hear it , it still becomes food for fungus. So , I, the individual ,Stosh, am not so important that the universe depends on me, it will still keep going on , when I am gone. So I am under no burden of responsibility that I need to keep living to satisfy the universe as human witness. You or I, are- am free to choose. If eating itself is rooted in desire , so is the decision not to eat , rooted in desire (with an aim at nirvana). So one may eat, or not eat , as they choose, it fails no requirement either way, and so one may follow a wise middle path, of just eating ... enough, ,,rather than get wrapped up in short sighted indulgences, etc.

As reluctant as I am to serve judgement on that , it seems a correct conclusion to me.

If we are all , ultimately , of a universal hive-type awareness,, and its our state as individuals is the thing suspect,, then if Gautama did achieve Nirvana , we all did anyway. Similarly , In Christianity , Jesus dies to rectify things for all our sins , and so all are to share in the grace he earned for us.

Yeah, its a spin on perspective. It invalidates certain excuses for what I see as self serving exemptions , and brings up some difficult issues , ... if you agree with its validity.

Eating, is only a need borne of the desire to continue functioning, so its still a desire. There is no 'need' to have you or I persist, in fact , we all die in the end, and so , if there is a need , it is for us to die at some point.

Great , so then you should delete the thread to bring yourself into compliance.

The faulty person regarding straw men , is the one who sets them up . And when a person indicates that the way they resolved an intractable and fundamental issue in a particular ..sect was, ,, essentially, to just make believe the problem wasn't there, they have done so .(This is what was said by this person ). Propping up a straw man argument, IMO, known to be , and already, straw . And what is compounding-ly worse , is to try to arrange a set of criteria , and linguistic hurdles ,which will immunize against the exposure.

If one cant fend off or correct the considerations of even the inexpert.. then they have no valid expertness themselves. To demand expertness from the position of an insider , to challenge the positions of an insider ,presents a self fulfilling situation ,that youre only accepting comment from those who essentially agree. But you will still get people digging their heels in for their favorite champion or playing the one upmanship game. That plan isnt one of open mindedness its exactly the reverse and obviously so. Its defensive and exclusive ...destructive to the existing paradigm.

Sounds right. Mad at somebody? Stick your own Head in the sand.

Doesn't one still see the posts of ignored users, when they get quoted by a third party ,anyway? So one still gets exposed to the ignored users words , ...unless one also ignores a whole lot of other people as well ..., shredding the threads I would imagine.

I know Sam,is an eater of ham. According to dependent origination, there is no Sam per se, there is just an eater of ham imbued with awareness. When Sam terminally malfunctions , there is still no Sam , and so therefore he cannot be reborn, there is still only generalized awareness posing as eaters of ham. Right? So the two , dependent origination and rebirth , are ideas mutually exclusive to a logic intending to be consistent. Arent they ?

No , that was an example of NOT grasping.. which is something wise to control.

We shall see.

Uh huh ,, still at it , can't say I'm surprised.

That would be similar. But my sentiment is that while one may think they like the hubbub , they may participate in the sack race ,and gab with the neighbors, peace and quiet is very nice. Its nice to sometimes bend enough to just get along , to be mediocre, to be in the middle rather than the fringe, to be boring rather than admired. One really doesn't reap all that much for being fiery, standing out and so forth. Some of us may really just wish not to ... be so fiery , not to stand out like a sore thumb, be so intense and all that. And by, some of us, I suppose I do mean me. Introvert by nature, but not in practice.

Yeah, something like that. I await seeing how things play out. I know we were known as a 'wild' west , and did my part in all the ruckus. Certainly there are threads to rough house in , but I question whether , in the end , if one wants to bring that stress to an end despite it all. Like going to a barbecue party and then being happy to just put your feet up at home.

I'snt that the right abbreviation? it stands for .. ummm ? ...secretly post behind the scenes so as not to disrupt the thread much

Sure , I'll PM you

I see the stupid confused icon,well, yknow how you started the next thread where you said you got off on the wrong foot in THIS thread. ..youre right in that one. Youre a smartass. Is that simple enough?

I think you will be very uncomfortable... with so many views there is little that could be considered standard for you to whale on , and what will happen is that you will be forced to react to,, virtually nothing, in order to have a demon to squash. Thats what happens when people define themselves by conflict, and several things already seem to indicate this is the case. I expect a swipe as payment for this insight, but like shadows falling from the useless tree, there is no ulterior intent that you can foil.

I read the same regarding both N and S american traditions of managing the land. Instead of the intense agriculture of the old world ,prescribed burng and fostering of the natural flora was done. Floating gardens structured waterways, planned distribution of trees and so forth. The system was slick , mostly effortless ,and very productive. But it doesnt fit with the very high population densities which are the basis for fighting power, and concentrates less on storable grains. That kind of management relies on a more communal social structure since anyone could just go and collect stuff the day before you got to it. Hard times would need to be more brief, and one may have to move frequently. If you were going to specialize at a trade, you just cant pick up and leave your ... clay deposit, timber stand , fishing hole. It just ends up condusive to being generally trained in simple skills ,living in smaller concentrations with more impermanent housing. While it may make for a good way of life, it impedes the progression of fancier development civilizationwise.

I dont see how complaining about other peoples discussions indicates that a person is becoming nicer, it could be that theyre becoming spoiled. To my eyes it seems that the interactions have been becoming ever more civil and well considered. The variety of topics is trending more broadly too

Because I am tolerant, and can handle the prospect that others may not validate my own opinion , I dont feel the need to toss about generalized accusations that everyone else is not up to my standards.