Stosh

Headache?

I'm not in the group that thinks 'heaven ' wants anything in particular.

Yep , but keep in mind , the idea of a god , some kind of personlike manifestation , who cares , who makes just decisions etc , is far more easily relate-able , and this shift in perspective ,therefore, has a huge advantage. So before the articulations of the Classical thinkers , there were the daoists for whom spirits and gods were resposible for running the show , AAANNd , again afterward I believe there was a good deal of reversion Back to that kind of understanding. So while FH , ( and HE) is in a totally different mindset , ,, I really like his renderings of TTC ,,, they're very good.

man·date noun an official order or commission to do something. "a mandate to seek the release of political prisoners" synonyms: instruction, directive, decree, command, order, injunction, edict, charge, commission, bidding, ruling, fiat; formalordinance "a mandate from the UN" the authority to carry out a policy or course of action, regarded as given by the electorate to a candidate or party that is victorious in an election. A mandate isn't exactly a blessing , its that the person holds the position because they are considered ,or will be the best person for the job. to lose the mandate is to lose your role as supreme leader , along with its perks and responsibilities. So a bad leader , loses the right , as seen by the people , to stay at the head, which is different than saying - that once a leader is made king , that they are infallible , cannot be rightfully deposed or replaced or challenged , because they have the endorsement of a deity.

I agree basically that , the physical world always conforms to the constant principles of the tao, that being said, yes one must always be physically acting in a manner predictable as regards physical laws.. however,, a sentient creature with free will , can make decisions , make errors , have preferences , and so, has some leeway, ( which provides an opportunity to hold a standard by which individuals and society , may be regarded, by other people , sharing that standard.) beyond that , of the proverbial billiard ball. The Great Tao , is factual non-dualist , holding no opinions, no sentiment, no judgement etc , it is true and inviolable ,, tao Lower case ! is the behavioral construct humans think conforms to the great tao , but in fact includes human sentiments. The majority of taoists appear to be of this ... either higher... or lower, .. type of Tao ethic.

No, its just favorable to me because it's the fact of what has been related to me. When I first looked at daoism , I was very open to whatever was going to be described. I wanted something to tell ME about things , I wasn't looking to fit my expectations. As it turned out I was surprised ! at what , mostly Lao , was saying. Eventually I came here , essentially, to find out if my conclusions were correct. I have never seen anything which contradicts my original conclusions, nor have I had anyone present a better basic understanding of the texts, in a way in which undermines ,what I believe they relate. What I have come to understand , is that there are schools of thought, a Shamanic or religious angle , casual modern 'Neodaoism', legalist readings, and a scholarly view centered on linguistics or history. While those are wrong , I have to let people decide for themselves the poison they wish to partake of

Have you considered that men cannot 'practice' that which is spontaneous ? Read thusly , it isn't that all men fail to act in accord with tao , its that you cannot do it with the intention of abiding by a rule.

Lao conclusively , cannot be shown to be factually wrong , about the mandate of heaven ( if its meant in a way that supposes a deity adjudicates men , and who then alters events from what they would have been on their own , to satisfy some sort of justice.) Since it doesn't appear he says that anywhere. Even if one supposes tao to be a secret word for a god, its men who must act in accord with tao , and its not an adjudication which waits upon the impact of a judgement from the Tao personality, about what men have done. In Moby Dick , Ahab deems himself greater than God , if by his actions , he can stir the hand of God to act , even if that act is one of punishment. ( he misses the ironic part, which would be that he himself is acting out of revenge, for a transgression against himself, by God) and the very neutrality of Tao is what then makes it have the greater virtue , Tao would be downgraded if it were to act with partiality. Similarly, the great show they are greater ,,according to some, , by sitting on their behind, staring south.

Whats the tube on your left shoulder?

About mandate of heaven ... Scanning Lin Yutang at terebess, ch 39 for instance Without clarity, the Heavens would shake, Without stability, the Earth would quake, Without spiritual power, the gods would crumble, Without being filled, the valleys would crack, Without the life-giving power, all things would perish, Without the ennobling power, the princes and dukes would stumble. therefore the nobility depend upon the common man for support, And the exalted ones depend upon the lowly for their base. There is plenty in Laozi which one could construe as endorsing tien ming , (in chapters 13 16 18 22 23 26 and so on) .............. mandate of heaven, being revoked, or, for considering a ruler worthy but it seems more that he felt it was just the natural consequence of being a crappy ruler that things would go downhill. After a long search for Confucius comment on it , I could find even less in analects. It seems an idea that coalesced without specific overt statement on it by either of them,, maybe Xunzi says more.

I found the met site , you can zoom in pretty good on what they have.

Faced with the reality that we have no fixed self, it is shown we can change each moment , and so there can be no transformations. The idea that there are, is an illusion born from the transient contact we have with others and the simplified symbolic characters we use to see one another. And the constancy required to show change is supplied by material quicksand of a dependent origination. so each moment is remade on the ashes of the moment before ,and to the degree we pull up the anchors , the past is gone, gone as gone can be, and yet written in stone ,indelible.

"Now as to your five-bushel gourd, why did you not make a float of it, and float about over river and lake? And you complain of its being too flat for holding things! I fear your mind is stuffy inside." Chuang from Terebess

IMO its a really crappy move to do that , whether its allowed , complete, or your worst enemy. It's Violating the intent of a private disclosure , which is privacy. Showing 'class', you keep it private, regardless,, unless its a death threat, and even then you discuss it with only certain people. Errors might be made , but as a personal rule , I say , have some freekin dignity , admin opinions do not excuse shitty behavior, they just limit it. IMO

While I usually balk at clips... those are just about right...

I would think so. If his fate was to walk a long ways , he just would have to take all them steps.. though I certainly couldnt say what anyone elses fate would be, If he taught,,, then he mustve thought he could potentially make it easier for others.

Its a short road home this that n me I all

That is humorous and creative but,, I think its taught that the extreme deprivation and its self destructive distracting aspect had become the main obstacle to his progress. Trying to crush his illusions as an act of violence preserved the dualistic perception of himself. He had to accept and embrace his totality. The focus on compassion is an extention of this acceptance. These aspects of his path are significant to those who would follow his example. .....Imo... but I am mot buddhist.

Rocala Is there a website where I could find bunches high res representations of paintings like these beautiful ones or , famous painters,, perhaps some museum sourced thing? Ahh, met museum of art . .. nevermind

Its the fancy term. My boss , for his bonsai, used the granular material that you'd , use for soaking up oil spots , from autozone ,I think and it has worked well for his plants. Organic materials , tend to be more problematic in that they deteriorate ,or house pests , have a wrong ph etc.

Those are fun , I did one of those, and similarly , saw clearly that they like to be in a certain situation. Forcing it, doesn't work , but if she has a hard time in the desert, and you tried the submerge thing , the amendment I would aim at, is changing the substrate.

Did you have a good day Honey? Why yes ! I did I insulted all my western colleagues ,and spoke about the Chinese like they were monolithic in opinion, you know, like they were all replicas.

Terebess Lin yutang on ch 53. Brigandage If I were possessed of Austere Knowledge, Walking on the Main Path (Tao), I would avoid the by-paths. the Main path is easy to walk on, Yet people love the small by-paths. The (official) courts are spic and span, (While) the fields go untilled, And the (people's) granaries are very low. (Yet) clad in embroidered gowns, And carrying find swords, Surfeited with good food and drinks, (They are) splitting with wealth and possessions. - This is to lead the world toward brigandage. Is this not corruption of Tao? Which is stated as a question , and brings up a question , can the Tao be corrupted ? since it cannot , any injustice seen in this is the invention of men. The Tao is fine with bees, volcanic eruptions , plague , and death. No , Tao cannot be corrupted. And so this, then, is the corruption of men, as seen by men, not from the perspective of Tao. What good would it do you , to be upset and hating the actions of others, or oneself, yet more? From an alternate perspective which is not judging virtue, one may still want things to be other than they are , but are not in enmity necessarily, with ones fellow. You could still enforce the law, but conserve ones internal composure. And so , by this mechanism , seeing from the perspective of Tao , one can preserve ones composure . Reject this impartial view , at the risk of dividing yourself against others , creating hatreds. You may feel these things justified , but is your own punishment justified for seeing brigandage for what it is?

Fine, then whats your experience that would answer the question? You eat a watermelon, taste it, etc, maybe this is your self as experienced. But then your opinions about the fruit are mostly fixed and in place before you bite in , aren't they? and to mentally support that, you can imagine that this particular slice ,today , is unripe and flavorless,, (because you got it at publix) and so you are surprised. Being surprised, your past experience is not lining up with the present, and so ,,, does this this not suggest a 'self' of past experiences , that is not necessarily the 'self' of the present?

Leaving the proof part alone , What makes you say this ? (said for what reason) And why is this conclusion one that you think best fits the data you have. It's an interesting claim one ,or I , might make, to exclude commentary from other people as having validity. But on the face of it , I can claim myself to be .. a loaf of bread , and I wouldn't go poof! and be on a plate. ( my nah wasn't amed at you , I was reconsidering the post I made as boring to me , and decided to skip with it, but you cant leave the blank space blank)