Stosh

Same back at ya.

So why would my possible enlightenment be some kind of crappy version?

Ah, these strike me differently. Now I get your point. Thanks.

I certainly hope it works that way for you. I cant say it wont, and dont yet know if theres a phase three yet.

....What chapters are you referring to? Boat and archer ... arent they Merton or somebodys? And so , not being Chuang are second hand and dont convey the full depth of an issue, I know folks who buckle down and focus taking things serious exceeding what they do goofing around. And the boat thing is about blame of other, I certainly Can hold you at fault for not acting , neglect, just following orders , and unintended consequences.

When I saw your topic I zipped over to google to see what has been previously said , frankly.. it's ugly. Either someone is fawning all over women, while bashing men , or, trying to explain attitudes of a bygone era without looking complicit. What may help is to recognize this at the outset, that both men and women had yin and yang aspects. The screwy part comes in when someone starts saying that Yin is female and Yang is male ,, and therefore women or men ,are not ideally , supposed to be certain things. The way I gather that they considered the yin role , was as a setting, in which yang things occurred , and without which those manifestations didn't get to happen. The yin was unspecified potential , and yang was specific form. And that one could not approve of either stance without endorsing the reverse as also being valid .... IMO I don't exactly know what a 'gender argument' is , nor a 'gender reading' ,, so at the very least you could feign confusion and petition to get out of a vague assignment you could not do , not understanding what was being asked.

Excuses excuses

Something like Frank Perdue.

A valid point . But , Personally, I do not think that when one is intellectually honest with themselves , that the confusions just go on interminably. Certainly that happens in umm.. a situation like the trump thread , where the point is just not to look bad, to never concede a point , obfuscate and otherwise knowingly evade getting to the real heart of the matter, OR just dig ones heels in vowing to never budge. The point there is to preserve a view of the ego that it is already right , because to put that in doubt , exposes one to the chance that one might indeed be swayed, or they may get seen as having been swayed. We learn all sorts of bogus tricks to avoid that very thing, so many in fact , that one can forget whether they are expressing a genuine gripe or not! Sincerity about getting to the truth of the matter , commitment to getting there .. can make a difference. Buddhists seem to have argued enough over the centuries , to establish that they don't think its a waste of time. If you're, hell bent on waiting for grace , Ok fine , I'll leave you to it, and I'll just see ya on the other side

IMO , be a man , and... Tell the person who assigned the subject, that you cannot make stereotypical statements about gender without making unfair presumptions ,and insulting people uselessly , so you want another topic.

The junior monks in the story didn't care about the whole dharma either , that's why they didn't give a response when challenged with a verse, and why they wouldn't come to the understanding that Hui did. Buddhism challenges one so that one exhausts all the confusions they have and opt for the truth. If phase one , accepting that ones true nature is not a parsed out thing , as an individual ego.. phase two would be breaking the bad habits and behaviors which are inconsistent with the new view. I suppose one can try to change the behaviors without comprehending their true nature but the junior monks in the story remain as they were inside, ego driven., that is operating to preserve a secure view of themselves as individuals. It probably looks much the same.

Is an 'Aha !' event seeing the unsupported mirror?

It has some advantages. But anyway thats Meat for another thread . So youre waiting on some sort of amulet or chant to manifest from the ether or what? How is that supposed to work?

I was speaking from my own upbringing ,catholic. We had prayers and blessings, most aimed at getting things that the runner of the show.. wasnt of a mind to bestow. Then I would pray, and nothing would happen.

Oh, I thought we were discussing if the desire to be pure was another example of attatchment or acruing karma. Its the dilemma presented by the requirement of a verse, by the original patriarch .. a typical zen move , im thinking.

Why not just dump the idea of grace being required and with held? As a christian one bumps up against this inexcusable ..... dickishness on the part of a creator . Then you can go whole hog buddhist and have the advantage of the experiences of thousands who went before you.

Today, found a cream colored woodpecker ,she looked like red bellied washed in bleach. Odd but Very pretty..

In The story, the sixth patriarch Figured it out for himself, No grace mentioned.

Is it the general idea in buddhism or even daoism , that one is supposed to purify and endorse a self?

Commentary two,from the excerpt,says it cannot be purified or defiled.. And the mirror can collect no dust accordng to the sixth patriarch. What would be your true face? In Buddhism it seems that one has none, except to see the underlying lack of one , with the certainty of a visual input. the mirror would present nothing Or show the world behind us ,dirt and all.

Ive been reading some things, and the notions I surmised I am not so sure of now. . The illusion of separate selves , how can something not existing , the mirror, the viewer, collect repercussions ? Would then the dust in fact BE the viewer, and in burnishing the mirror , would one not be reinforcing the illusion rather than seeing themself?

....add yet.. there is dust.

Finally saw the big blue chicken , she was yanking up cattails and dicing crunchy bits for the youngun. Like the pompano, I was starting to think it was one of those things like a mirage or unicorn that only existed in the minds of the beholder. She aint ABA but there they were in all natures glory..... woohooo

I gotta admit , i never asked myself that WWND ! Cheers Oooh, works good.

Is that suppsed to be money?