Stosh

.. nope Nah, Im not continuing with this .

So there is a, backward China , - and a modern, 'the rest- of- the -world' ?

Then what would be? I agree you do need the papers , one shouldn't try to avoid them to 'be real' , but I wanted to draw a refusal line at saying that they do have intrinsic value , because they are treated as if they do. ( which is not understanding that the word 'intrinsic' is in the sentence for a reason ) Ultimately I don't think we disagree at all.

Well , though one can benefit from the certs, and the process of getting them , the value is not intrinsic in the paper IMO. Whether its a violation of ones integrity , to present certifications which indicate skills one does not actually have ..conventionally speaking ,, No, its not an act of integrity, since its still an act of deception being done to escape the ramifications of what one is, objectively speaking, that is ,, if it's not just a silly formality. But by all means one should go out and do what it takes to get valid certifications, and if it really is just a formality. I doubt anyone wants to deal with pros that have phony credentials.

People often say I'm certifiable, I'm not sure what it means , but I think it has to do with putting odd things that don't fit , in some sort of box.

Showers are supposed to be either hot or lukewarm, end of story But as a kid I didn't mind swimming in rather cold seawater, and would play in there until blue.

A molecule of Iron had magnetic dipole properties which are apparent when they are organized as a magnet , Heat the iron magnet , disorganization happens , overall magnet properties go away. Reapply organization , and the property reappears. (And if this is an accurate analogy it would appear that awareness could be intentionally built into forms.) See , it self replicating too

A molecule of Iron had magnetic dipole properties which are apparent when they are organized as a magnet , Heat the iron magnet , disorganization happens , overall magnet properties go away. Reapply organization , and the property reappears. (And if this is an accurate analogy it would appear that awareness could be intentionally built into forms.)

Cotton socks, Always. Harboring anger to even things up is kidding myself.

Nicely elucidated Mh.

If you enjoy your efforts , you get to express your life in a way that fits who you want to be.. well that's pretty useless to me , Right ? But I would say ,it is spending your time well . Your teachings and learnings empower the spirit right? Of what use is that? You will pass like everyone else, and the rich garden of your soul will .. disperse. It isn't going to be stored . Even great heroes from Ghengis to Archimedes , live only as names now, ,, and only as faces or voices ,back then , behind which, were entire persons, mostly anonymous. So what you will have, is what you live now , transitory moments , emotions , loves, triumphs and all the rest that human flesh is heir to. The facts and figures of a savings account, statues and foundations in your honor ( if you get that done) , are all useless to you ,if your life sucked , if you lived at odds with yourself, even if you lived two hundred years. If these arts make your life good , if they don't leave you fired up and ticked off , well then, the philosophy has done the trick whether you wanted it to or not. It soaked in, and that's the important thing.

Make new mistakes ?

The useless is whats useful.

Ok, name the parts you want touched.

Its problematic to sway peoples opinions, or have purposefully directed discussions. To assert whom knows or doesnt , is going to hurt feelings most likely. Though I usually push some point , I know about the price it costs, and it might be better for me to leave it to somebody else. When I stop to consider what has been fruitful , most of the time its not the facts insights and logical opinions on facts . When I look to those who have a gift for gab, the people for whom conversations seem to leave people smiling most. , there was no ultimate point other than to be in touch.

That's not what a straw man is , a 'straw man' is when you re-frame someone else's argument so it looks obviously false so you can push it over.

No its not a trick. I can see you are worried about giving an example and cooperating in the illustration , because you prefer just insisting that there have to be rules , which you would just blow off as the mood fit. They weren't providing that. The sun shines on both the wicked and the just , the sun does that it's neutral , and thus of universal opportunity , a good thing. They said what they said and made it's assertions neutral. Though ,the sun is neutral about you or I , (as the whole of Tao is , since both yin and yang equate and its a finite system) it makes a difference in what your game plan is , due to its existing. So the DDJ is like the useless tree that doesn't get cut down because its unfitted for being used as a tool to some particular end. It provides shade , and a venue for gathering etc ,as its manifestations allow- But its not a respect-er of men ,- it isn't taking sides. If one considers that yin brings about yang as an integral consequence of existing , there is nothing one can do to force the world to un-balance in either the yin or yang direction, so the DDJ cannot make the world a better place by giving a biased set of rules , it can make the world a bit better , provide relief -shade , a place to gather- relate ... by benefit of its manifesting neutrally. This is what is being discussed as virtue. Not the biased virtue of Christians and Pagan alike, this is suggesting that one gets to exist and manifest according to their nature , and leave the rest alone un-interfered with, and its the most appropriate definition of what virtue is. They wanted to write things of virtue , and so , its neutral, not a rule book.

How is that a good question? It just underlines why rules do not stand up to real world situations, and they are not what is being presented. What was being presented was alternatives to a conventional mindset , It makes a big difference if one thinks virtues are embodied in following rules which do or do not apply to an instance , and understanding that what is called virtue, depends on the instance. Saying " Go west young man ", only was decent advice for some , not all. Pick a chapter that you think gives you an unambiguous rule.

What if you live in an urban area?

I'm not aware of any holes in my mental model.

To the extent to which our mental model renders accurate predictions , and is successfully cross reference-able between people , I would say its correct , personally. And especially so, when we aren't engaging in rough subjective presumptions. Subjective experience is true as such , but doesn't guarantee a correlation to physical facts.. ( which are true as facts,, not false or correct, as modeled assumptions are). When blended, these mental presentations have some inherent shortcomings rendering truth. IMO

The for-profit Subgenius church that satirizes or parodies conventional religions led by salesman Bob Dobbs?

I don't know anything about Lenny, his wikipedia thing reads complimentary to his character.. but I would say that most people would rather get along , be nice, do some kind of service , be appreciated and rewarded for it. Many get led astray, learn bad habits ,or get frustrated by it all. So this idea of naturalness isn't just to flail around making the same mistakes one usually makes , but to actually put the pieces together so that one is actually getting to those good places. You have to trust in the basic decency of people to suggest it , and, be aware that the best angels of our intent aren't always up front and center running the show.

That's why its called the Way. For you martial guys , the rationale is the same , under extended over extended , overestimated , entrenched , losing ones mission , too little commitment , too much emotion. The ideas are scale-able cross-applicable invertable, etc But the Way , is not the One single venue of poetry. ( I think I would've liked that inverted reading ,, it should be just as valid.)

"That is part of it yes, i think another meaning is that true virtue springs not from any virtuous action or person and that the highest of virtues are manifested when you follow the Dao and your nature fully without ever considering or wanting any virtue at all." So what would be the inverse of that? ans.. Wanting to be what you are not , not knowing who you are spiritually , and being confused about the real state of things, taking things to a self destructive extreme etc.