Stosh

If you mean that in the forward direction , you are quite right , but if you mean it in reverse , , you won't always find people to play the part you might expect. Everyone has motivations and prompts which are invisible at any given moment.

Don't count on it.

Oh , May I say you do not need to defend your pride in this case? The mods warn us if we are going too far , and that IF we march blindly forward we will be banned. We cant know exactly where the line is , its drawn by human beings , and so , they do us the honor of telling us when we approach it. You haven't gone too far , you are not banned , and so your honor is intact. Relax move on , and just remain cognizant that there is a limit that they will notify you about. ( In fact , you can be very proud of yourself, 99% of folks just will not heed this kind of well meant advice out of hubris. )

That I am excusing a bad thing ? Covering up ? Whitewashing?

Don't make things get that far . It is a downer, to get smacked like that , especially if you enjoy your time here. If you do value the fun you have , It should indeed make you at least cognizant of where the boundaries are at. Many times we have seen folks get all defiant at the tiniest of corrections , They declare how much this forum is un-important to them , and how they don't care' WHAT any one says,they are not going to guard their tongue' , , and I feel that's bullshit , and childish. If you value this whole thing , you can live with the occasional constraints. Its that simple. This is a little community , in which one best considers everyone ,ANd themself.

I don't think I experience my otoliths, nor do I experience photons, etc, ..and instead ,do create experiences in the form of a mental model , regarding the "proprioception" going on....so I figure I agree with you up to that point. We perhaps diverge after that. ? I think it was suggested that one can walk around all day long , not making sophisticated mental constructs , I disagreed , and here I think you are describing a mode of approaching what you consider mindfulness ,, if that's correct , then my question extends to you , whether you are mindful of breathing , or if you are mindful of the grasshopper. , I don't think you can be fully mindful of either , if your answer is ' both' . When one multitasks , they are dividing the allocation of time spent on more than one task , and so then they are not mindful 24 -7 , if they are going to the store to get groceries.

Somebody HAS to swing the banhammer , the point is that someone does have that responsibility, not that anyone is perfect.

Some of us take the written word, with a grain of salt, and we can tolerate sentiments that are ordinarily considered offensive , the same way.( That at least its genuine.) But , this being a public venue , we are not in a situation which is conducive to permitting absolutely anything , there's other people to consider, not only the mods , nor Sean , nor only those who write posts. There's an audience of quiet people too, who would rather read what is written with a bit of self control. It isn't all about me , nor you, nor Mh , and I personally prefer not to be offending folks , I prefer them to participate , and it requires cooperation, in the form of some rules to cooperate according to. We all hold back from time to time and its no disgrace to just abide by the rules we implicitly agreed to, by joining, as best we recognize them. No biggie.

Some render the Dao navigable by assigning arbitrary boundaries , and rules , to its scope. But in reality these boundaries are fabrications and the proper behaviors, need to fit the circumstance in which one actually is operating. The proper execution, of the way of heaven, for men , is contingent upon the human element , not independent of it. ...its not a rote set of rules, you have to be judicious and feel your way through it.

Imhotep

No its not the loop of being sad about being sad. its a situation where everything drags you back there. You dont believe the things which would make you happy are valid. That the other shoe will fall . Things have no bang for the buck. You need to understand that continuing on is an act of faith based of feedback. no feedback no reason to go on. They want to live and go on, its just that there is no payoff to keep em going. What they do, doesnt touch on , what they need or its negated somehow. Not all depressions are the same, nor are they even all recognized .

That surely sounds valid. And I suggested as much, in real life, but there can be yet more. And it really is just the most saddest and wasteful ... thing...even so..

Thats not it either. they are caught in a web , if its not just chemical.. where the things that should bring joy , the impetus to go farther, do not. They want to live richly , intensely , and with all their heart.

Is it not better, to have lived a rich life, pusuing some crazy irrational but beautiful dream ?

iI know a little bit about it , and thats not what is going on. Thats all, one needs a really up close view to understand that kind of thing.

You must not be depressed

It is. and I will concede that Buddhism has probably done more for humanitys wellbeing .... so far

Im sorry , I am not sure I am following your presentation.. I agree that being angry at insult is flawed rationally speaking. I know folks who regularly give each other a hard time , and its actually just play, but even more than that ,the reaction is just not actually determined as a fact by the insult. Are we in agreement ? PS the ocarina is magnifico.

Certainly true Ct , So I did not volunteer any analysis of SG today. and just mentioned sticks bells and balls, leaving the doubt for others to assign. but you are correct I think the effects of such are to be considered... in the context of individuals reations to them. ...Same could be said for pschoanalysis ..to be fair. But I dont think buddhism has supplied the fix for mental illness, even to the poor level of modern psychology.

Freud had some issues, and in his analysis of his own mind , he saw some of that stuff. So one might take it that he knew what he was talking about. Siddhartha , may not have had phobophobia and so , he might not be the guy to look into it. Its difficult to fathom the mind of folks who suffer from various conditions , and it may be misplaced to assume that what was said about 'normal minds' fits all circumstances , folks in those days , often seem to refer to demons and such and had various rituals like burning sticks ,ringing bells and so forth, as remedy. In the new world , the remedy for idiocy was to rub beaver testicles on your head , and so one may presume that there are , understandably, limits to rational understanding. (Wouldnt someone who wasn't an idiot , be able to tell if it worked or not )

It would sound less unappealing, if it were a state, where one was at ease, with the state of things as they are, were, and are to be, whatever that appears to be, including the change that one has effected , is effecting , and will effect. Kind of like that thing where ' everything is suffering' it sounds horrible in english..

Whoa !

Yes , exactly . Nicely put.

May I suggest one can react before desire to act is formulated, If so , the tree is there whole before its seed germinates. If you watch yourself really really closely , even typing posts , you may see this can be true. One may not always act like this ... but I am thinking is is more common than one considers it to be. Thats why caligraphy and martial arts and wu wei and meditation etc , Are the way they are. The source of who one is , precedes who they believe they are . I am just suggesting this , its not an argument I am presenting.

Well said.:)