Stosh

My bad , spelling.

Yeah, those coincidences happen to me all the time, I don't make much of it anymore , I cant figure out how to may it pay-off.

I was going to go digital starting with some photos I took , and try to show that the hog head is a more natural fit for the dragon as a chimera. The apt isn't really convenient for making things with plaster, or clay , and to do that I would want to spend a long time on it.

Well ,It is spooky. I don't have a pre-made dragon , so I I'll need to get one done tonight.

Skip the scales then, yes that is tedious ,. and to show I am not lazy , I'll match with a hoghead dragon.

To me, the stylized green thing looks like a sea horse,,, with a real horse head , or a birds , but frankly, its SO stylized, I don't think it really looks like a pig head OR a crocodile. It looks most like....whatever the person who made it says it is. ( it could be an embryo human! - ontology follows phylogeny) . An image made by a person who has no clue what the heck the creature looks like , is not a faithful depiction of the animal its intended to represent , and so its no proof what the creature would have been. Lets see what Starjumper comes up with, once he gets off that crutch, that he can't draw it.

Fine, thanks , I found an article which has your shell dragon, better angle, it already has a long neck ,,, you cant make much else out. SO that find , doesn't prove the origin was a croc. Going back all the way to the hongshan neolithic period around 7500 to 8000 years ago , the dragon already had its non crocodile form and was not paired with the tiger but with another chimera called a fenghuang which is a composite bird thing and that's before any recognizable traditional Chinese cultural tradition had begun.( Its really really far back in time. ) The word dragon Lo'ng is it? has no meaning other than the mythical thing. For all we know , the original 'dragon' could've been the Yellow river or something. The invention of new chimeras and mythical creatures has continued through time , but you haven't proven anything about the origin of a dragon being a crocodile , esp when it has ears horns and flies. Yes I know people associate it a bit with crocodiles now , but that is short cutting a long and rich cultural tradition , and the crocodile thing seems a trivialization of what the symbolism has meant over time. Perhaps subconsciously We in the West, who have undermined so much of our own cultural heritage, building new stuff and moving on ..we might like to do the same 'favor' for them ,or we might think that if we can just simplify history with a mundane origin , that the playing field might be evened or we can at least feel a sense that we have a good grasp on things. Personally , I think its cooler if its not a croc, but all things frankly admitted , it might have been once,, but thats all that can be said,,, it Might have been- 8000 ! yrs ago. .

I AM half German... but at least I have heard of the Pixiu Nian Sinyou and Xiezhi . ( and know what a crocodillian actually looks like ) , Heck ! this is an alligator I saw this weekend. You got em too,,

Proceeding like a mentally stable person, crocodillians do not fly , nor do they breathe fire , nor do they have overlapping scales like a snake nor do they have antlers ears or a mane .. Their eyes do not point forward , and they dont have much of a neck The only thing like an asian crocodile , is that this thing has is an elongate shape , and its just as likely to consider it similar to a salamander ,of lizard of any type ,, and only those of feeble imagination or knowledge of natural creatures would consider croc to be the only candidate as a model.

Don't big font at me dude. You're still wrong. wrong and rude. Apologize for the big font, correct it..... As far as being wrong you've only proved you aren't the only one to be misled .

I am aware of modern new age construals about this. I am curious what Starjumper or Apec say about this though.

Like the other mythical creatures of Cinese lore, their dragon is a chimera, and its head is that of a boar, which is why it doesnt look like a croc. Otherwise, like the tortoise and Lion, they would just have called it a crocodile. If you make your mythical creatures real ones it gets too confusing. It would be like naming all your kids Yu.

Id appreciate it if yall would refrain from posting pix of my ex-wife.

How many ways can the constellations be drawn? Ans, Infinite. And why is this so? Ans They aren't actually connected .Can they be witnessed ,seen ? Ans, Yes if yo imagine them as depicting some arbitrary intellectual construct. And what does this have to do with social groupings ? Ans, They are also the product of arbitrary intellectual groupings. Can you see people , do they have things in common? Ans, No not really., Who a person is, remains private,they have no common basis. Can we be proud of a cultural achievement? Ans, Yes, but you would be taking credit for things you havent done. Are all these men my relatives ? Ans ,Yes. Does it matter what color they are, or what haplogroup , or political affilliation? Ans ,No, havent you been listening? Individuals exist , stop pretending the other stuff is fact, thats mental fabrication. Believe it ,or Not. ,:)

Im in seekers camp. Discomforts angers and fears have been brief and understood to be transitory. The progression though slow ,is at least always positive , and to do otherwise is like flowing uphill and creating rollercoasters of fresh troubles with impatience. Imo. Do as you think best though, I just wanted to provide two cents worth of alternative to what seems ,,, popular because tribulation isnt a guarantee that youre moving in a peaceful direction. sounds kind of sucky actually.

I figure that is something you already presented, that nothing has meaning , and so everything has meaning . This ironic view can be applied to many ideas , but the crux is that wu and yu cannot be mutually exclusive. Thats the rule , Ya gots to have one, to have the other , So the folks eating oxen are indulging in an illusion - partying in order to enjoy the reality of a party. There is no 'only' acting from a wu perspective , nor is there , 'only' acting from a yu perspective. IMO , what you get from certain realizations , is flexibility , clarity and a perspective which says that taking life lightly , whichever way you do that in fact IS the significant thing , and its entirely up to you. There is no cosmic validity to saying its wrong to be introspective, wrong to meditate , wrong to like heavy women. ,, Though , One Will have to live with the consequences , deal with the objective facts of natural laws , and societal mores etc and blah blah. There is a perennial conflict, for lack of the better word, between the needs of the individual and the needs of the collective community.. the best solutions are win-win, but there is also one sided winning , where only the individual sacrifices , and there's the version where only the individual benefits, etc . Depending on your upbringing , sacrifice may be considered highest virtue , and in another it may be considered stupidity. ( so if one wants to describe it as such , the middle path is to recognize both yin and yang, wu and yu and strike the balance which is win win. )

The multitude of men look satisfied and pleased; as if enjoying a full banquet, as if mounted on a tower in spring. I alone seem listless and still,,,,,I alone am different from other men, but I value the nursing-mother Vulgar people are clear. I alone am drowsy. .,,, Everyone else is busy, But I alone am aimless and depressed. The people of this world are steeped in their merrymaking as if gorging at a great feast or watching the sights of springtime Yet here I sit, without a sign, staring blank-eyed like a child But I'm abandoned and destitute, an absolute simpleton, this mind of mine so utterly muddled and blank. but I'm inept, thoroughly useless and backward. What the people fear, I cannot be unafraid So desolate! These are excerpts from the text as you see it written ,right ? Anywhere else , not making presumptions about what is being said ,as being somehow positive, and instead taken at face value in English,,, This Daoism is being presented in quite a negative light. That is not me skewing the meaning , that's what they are indicating with their translation. And despite me being entirely opposite of FH's views , regarding mysticism ,, he alone is on target for an English meaning ,as spoken in English, IMO

Dunno, I have to consider that, real international relations is not an exact replicate of individual social institutions , I was aiming at the self inflammatory nature of getting bent out of shape over things that really aren't in your purview. As a guy once said ,( tongue in cheek) , "I sure am glad I thought THAT about That guy !"

Its for you to decide whether the translation makes sense as it stands , or whether it needs adjustment. I think it doesn't read , in these translations , that the Sage is just introverted or feels well rewarded for his alternate path. So this kind of translation is not taken all the way to the presentation of Meaning , in English , as its supposed to , if one is translating , from Chinese , TO English. You don't just stop when you think the Chinese is substituted with English letters.. that is BAD , a job half done ,IMO

Imo there are several schools of Daoism even today, religious mystical daoism was traditionally older but spawned the philosophical sprout which largely became resorbed ,, similar to the ancient western greek model which became overshadowed by the older Abrahamic traditions , and only later reemerged as a renaissance allowing the west to dominate world culture , carving up china africa and the new world and drag the rest into the 20th century.

This the kiddie pool , times up.

The one who says he has lost the desire ,while he criticizes the others. IF THE WORDS ARE ACCUrate then he isn't happy and bringingtinging on long life or energy to himself, and has no standing to present his attitudes as virtue . Cant fix typos for some reason, mobile version is screwed up in several ways.

Look at Lins commentary , He is badmouthing scrutiny while scrutinizing. He thinks the excitement and fun is foolishness. He feels worn out, doesnt even know how to smile.. He attributes his grim existance to knowing the mindset of Dao, he thinks he is above and beyond everybody else, when his descriptions draw a picture that suggest that in finding Dao , he lost the illusions vigor and reward that everyone else is finding.. As the Hogfather somewhat put it, one has to live with some inaccuracy illusion etc in order for the living well to exist. Ones family friends belongings justice. mercy goodness and love ,is not the province of cold unimaginative natural process.

Why not? The point was to to poke out value judgements.

All The translations offered for this chapter really have a nice poetic quality. Though it looks pretty Ironic , to have the speaker self describe , as being depressed stupid and worn out - the result of being Daoist , or resulting in adoption of the ' dark mother' as a last resort before suicide or death from old age. Its not exactly 'modern style' salesmanship. Kind of a negative presentation in some ways. My soul is weak and dull, my spirit collapsed. Other people , fools , are having purposeless fun goofing around with parties , and I am just sitting here staring blankly into space , essentially waiting to die.