Stosh

Man gotta relige ?

Thanks for introducing Rohit, I am enjoying his vids.

It has always struck me oddly, how little of natural process gets discussed here. Its like the very lastest thing on anyones mind. Could you elaborate on natural processes which happen outside the realm of human endeavor which are instructive to human wisdom ?

Isnt your retreat way high up in the clouds on a mountain? (to be fair in sharing ... I live in florida which is so flat and low we dont even Have rocks and when we look to camp, we look for high dry ground)

Whats the rest of the path? Thats important isnt it? I can put blame where it belongs, But that doesnt do anything unless I can force the guilty to see things my way. This goes for even the tiniest of things, , Say someone ignores a post , they might do that because they have no sufficient answer, or it just strikes them as something they didnt want to hear. So they snub the person speaking to them , and feel justified. Since they feel justified , it does nothing to point out the snub. In fact, they tell themselves that they are forgiving You. and excercising tolerance. So in properly assigning blame one basically is taking on a burden on behalf of the guilty, and the only solution is to excuse them for being chicken. Right?

Why would praying to a god improve someone? Praying usually means ," Give me something. " in exchange for flattery. Its a bit like you noticed, the desire is for stuff or power that the god withheld, and that doesnt seem very spiritual. But consider this, if the person is already a whole and complete good thing, then gods have nothing to bestow Other than powers and advantages!. and self improvement is up to the individual, if they think they need it. If ,A person of abundant humility seeks from one who has less, what can they learn?

It kinda sounds like a stress reaction to me, and in that case temperature wouldn't really be the issue.

While your point is true enough In my opinion , the statement could be construed as calling Roger a demon, which he mightn't like, or, some may not care for contradiction however true the point may be. My morning profundity, is that many think they need to keep being told to be nice repeatedly. Over and over again., with no mitigating rationale. Because of this , I have been working on the esoteric practice of WITBA , subchapter fvs.

Fail.

Don't I know it!

Me too ,but though even children regularly see this umm issue, ,if the kid is influenced enough to overlook it, they are presented with a simple system of rules that they can follow ,at least. Fancier ideas like moral relativism , to a degree , relies on this kind of socialization to be in place, and if in the end the kid goes towards this more complicated view, its not impossible to come to a new view of God, which does make sense. I. decided that if god was good ,as described, then he would understand that the evidence he couldve provided, being absent, rendered me , quite reasonably ,in grave doubt about the church,, Or even entire disbelief in God himself. I didnt envision god as petty ,spiteful, obfuscating.

Yeah, maybe he just figured those who would get the message ,would , and those who wouldn't , wouldn't. .. I was sitting out back one morning , and saw a squirrel go down a bald cypress tree, and up into another, two cardinals were freaking out. From the nest , the squirrel took a cheeping baby cardinal chick ,she turned it ass end up and ate it live ,like a burrito. The next day , the same thing happened again , and on the third day once more. All the chicks were gone. It Doesn't seem to me like the Universe did any 'stepping in' to save the chicks, nor did it thwart the squirrel into having to eat bald cypress 'cones' which are all gooey and have little food value. Go to a children's ward at a hospital , and you will get a distinct view that there isn't anything 'looking out' for humans but other humans. No cardinals stopping by to check on the kids , no squirrels dropping off acorns for the needy, the sun was not mitigating its harsh glare through the windows.

That would be true, certainly.

Philosophically I am at a pivot point. But I have thought, that Lao would have said that good and bad are subjective views or assessments which we are going to have , certainly. Its the idea that these views are facts written in stone that all men rightfully share, and wrongfully dissent from , which is problematic. Recognizing we stand alone puts the onus squarely on our own shoulders ,rather than give us others to blame. The stars do not care if we or others suffer, or cause suffering. We humans have to live the consequences of what we do and the way we think. It just works out to be the case that most of us have ideas in common but held individually, and or relations to things and others weighs very directly on our own well being. So even if a person considered themselves to be simply doing something selfishly, the action may be indistinguishable from that of the person who says they did it selflessly.

Yeah , I can see it that way. I have seen people make these generalizations , but thats all they are.I knew a guy in college, he was lutheran, and quite satisfied with what his faith brought to him.I always respected that, but it brings up a difficult consideration.,,whether its right to promote or dicuss even, beliefs which are contradictory to those of others.. I decided it cant be said to be wrong, but that doesnt always sit any more comfortable than saying nothing.

Personally I would consider those labels to be way to broad ,to the extent that I wouldn't even consider any answer to be correct , since any belief system has a lot of variation , existing only in the folks who ascribe to them. Does this not make sense?

Not so much that I was thinking so , but its a reasonable conclusion for you to come to.( initially) I was aiming more that whatever lessons or admirable characteristics anyone had as a result of gaining insight and wisdom, they would actually still have regardless of my moral judgement or societal concern they might also engender. (I've known some hard folks that I in fact like a lot , and some 'saints' I cant stand.) The texts can't, in themselves ,discriminate on how the information will be used or by whom . The sun shines, or text sheds light ,which has to be mirrored in the reader to be accurate to the intent of the author. My resolution of this issue, though it could indeed be construed as simply 'efficiency as virtue ',, is that the author Must believe that men at the core are actually good. Its a fundamental belief you have to have , if you are going to tell people to revert to their original nature ,( thinking this will actually be helpful to mankind). Or you are simply escalating the effectiveness of some of your readers at being destructive etc etc. If you believe that men at the core have a lot of commonality, and that its the circumstance they find themselves in which is deficient for satisfying their spirit , and that if they were indeed satisfied and at peace, they would no longer lash out or have cause to be hostile, then to the extent that they were able to find the peace etc , you'd be effective at reducing the hostilities. I've been told that some believe there are others so screwed up that the only cure for them is an end.. and by another ,,that the core of man is really just a nasty brutish animal with wits. And by yet another , that mankind is just the most stupid self destructive creature ever to exist. I personally don't know who I agree with most though.., I would like to believe that mankind is special and has a thing which I can value. All I can come up with is that we can create what doesnt exist because we can see what is and is not real, and we can consider things in a way which is not entirely with respect to our own well being because we can have empathy.

You do seem off your game , and wish I could be of assistance , but cant imagine how. I guess it puts the idea of whether just waiting lets the mud settle, to a real life test . I've tried this, but when it doesn't work, I figure I must be doing it wrong,,but maybe I'm not.

No, the Best way to prevent auto-save , is to have it be disable-able and disable it , since there's no reason why that couldn't be the case, and probably most often serves to intrude on the development of private thoughts. One expects that hitting the post button, or not , is indicative of a persons decision to post the post. That's why it says post on it. So that one could still participate and yet develop the text without having several copies of text they did not wish to commit to ,saved, as if it was. Or they could write a book in a single post box with security that it wouldn't just go away half way through , if that was their style. What other purpose would it serve to save unfinished text ?

How do you disable autosave ? I dont think its right to read autosaved posts which werent actually posted.

He presents perspective which may indeed lead to an attitude described as a form of moral relativism, but the point, straight forwardly ,is providing clear perspective , universally good, rather than promote yet another -ism. Universal goodness extends to the serial killer, or sniper or soldier or monk, likewise, some just need more improvement to be acceptable at large constituting greater threat.

Lets try this out ,Any of you and I witness Rj going on a killing spree, I think his actions arent compassionate , and in this case revenge is an appropriate arm of justice ,and so consider that he should be terminated. You however possibly consider it that he has not in fact killed anyone , he has rendered materials non functional , and revenge or any other sanction would be the uncompassionate behavior, on our part. In fact ! since all of us are part of the universe which is sentient, and we have no volition, ,we would not exist to be held responsible , if we did the same as Rj. Is this not fair extrapolation? and if not , how so?

Um Ct , you arent considering a rolling rock to be alive right? Unmoved mover is an originator of events, and without any spark whatsoever ,the universe is dead Yes?Youd be saying you have no life nor will , just consequence unending..and un begun.. no volition whatsoever

If one remembers the sage or Tao is being impartial , then wicked and the just are mirror images anyway and therefore the Christian slant is being provided by the judgement of the reader- if by anyone. The idea being conveyed , is the same regardless of your perspective who is right or wrong in any given real life scenario. The Tao and the sage don't share the bias that you are having. In not being judgemental , rain falls and sun shines on everyone similarly, presenting anyone with the same opportunities ( universally good) Many attempt to corral the sage into choosing the side that they agree with , to essentially validate the socialization which they were raised by, or came to understand as an exclusive truth independent of themselves. This is often where the confusion arises as to the meaning of the passage being presented. To understand any passage its my opinion that one should check if the inverse opinion can also be seen to have validity , and if it cant be found , then the translation is a biased presentation , of the original unbiased stance of the author.

May I add , that with the usual irony , the life of the dog may equally be considered the useless ( self serving aspect) ,, and the death-burnt dog, could be construed as the useful ( serving the other - next life with fertilizer) ?