Stosh

They could and probably Should post the'ingredients,' like everybody else has to , for reasons they must already understand. Im from Ny, we have great water there piped in from a nice clean watershed in the Adirondacks. People still drink bottled water there.

I wont hold you to searching proof for that , we all know theres plenty of stuff in water, it dissolves everything and its just the lowest concentration you can detect which determines what youll find. Thing is that it would indeed be nice to have plain ol hoh to drink, but thats just how the modern world is now, and even if you went back in time youd be drinking cholera or diptheria or amoebic dysentary. I know ,I know,, you dont want to have to make unpleasant concessions, none of us does,, but you do have to accept some. Like the solar particles and soil radiation, and natural carcinogens in your food, the threat of plague from rodents around the wigwam and roach pieces in your cereal. Yeah , disgusting ,unpleasant unhealthy, and ,, unavoidable. The great danger , the things which in fact Will actuall as fact kill most of those protestersis heart disease , and diabetes . And none of this ruckus will stop it.

Ymean like estrogens from birth control pills? yep. Do away with that too along with autos and batteries and steel and voila! Back in the stone age.

I love that dudes comedy, he did bring up a good point unmentioned,, how often do you personally drink untreated water out of rivers ? Theres too much nature in it for me personally. oh, and as far as I heard, the native americans didnt have a problem with the Redskins or any of the other mascots. Theyre proud of it Just like the fighting irish and the Italians their mobster stuff.

Good stuff, ,,some of it ,,like all the ones about natural gas, since this pipeline is for oil from fractured shale. Natural gas ,doesnt make a puddle , and none of the remediation efforts for these events is described, if it can be cleaned up , That is different ,isnt it? Theres infrastructure all over the US millions of miles of pipes powerlines , chemical plants etc and sundry. On the scale of multibillion dollar projects, even a wrecked freight train is small beans. Sure, a dog taking a dump on my front lawn seems significant to me,, on my scale,, which is teenie tiny really. But How does a leaky pipline compare to a nuclear meltdown , the exxon valdez, the BP thing, or flooding a big chunk of the reservation like they already did, in real life , actually ,happened ,, compared to a puddle you bulldoze away to a closed landfill. You have to pick something, something realistic , and better than the one suggested.,rather than tell everyone everywhere to adopt a lifestyle of processing your own feces into methane.

Fair, but the argument presented to me ,was that it was Their land, and it is Not at all touching the reservation. There is no Barely, about it. , its not touching it , its at a minimum half a mile off! Theres no shamefully ignored possibility of routing it off reservation,,, Its Not On the reservation! The private landholder doesnt like the project for some reason and lets the protest stuff happen on her private land to push the issue. I googled to see what significance the sacred site has , and I found out they consider the entire black hills ! to be a sacred site, but on her land there is a few rocks which may or may not be in a pile and couldve been put there specifically so it could be called a site,, or maybe hold the corner of a tent down.There is no desecration that can happen there ,its a few ordinary Rocks. If I accidently kicked them ,thered be nothing there. The hundred leaks, umm how many times filling autos or changing oil, or car wrecks happen to result in a tiny mess per year, in every state and on every reservation on every boat ,on every road tiny things happen. If one of those railroad cars falls in the river , you still get contamination potential, and still maybe not even as bad as a sewer line break or dead cow in your pond. I like the idea of clean safe water too, but sometimes folks are just drawing the threats with too much zeal. When the flooded 200000 ares of the reservation as a resevoir, That seems a big issue, , a pipeline underground ,is not.

Oh, and the proposed pipeline isnt even on reservation land, the sacred site to be protected is an anonymous litte pile of rocks Off reservation. The court did require permission seventy five percent of land holders to ok the easement, over 90 percent did, and that did indeed allow the ruling of Eminent domain to prevail. The idea was to take the flammable stuff off of railways where it can kill people, whereas the peaceful demonstrators have caused millions of dollars of damage by arson. When its all in, you wont even be able to see it being five feet underground and all tidied up above.

There was a question at the end of that , did you choose not to answer it so you could make an ambiguous reference which sounds defiant instead ? Go ahead , tell me how they eat with stone tools , don't know how to write , or use a chain saw ,, go ahead describe that. Learn me about it. I think youre blowin smoke. If some folks call the grandparents up for the big yearly pow wow, I Presume they call em on a cell phone, rather than use smoke signals , because I presume they arent stupid. Then I presume they all show up in Silverado pickup trucks , and presume some of the guys consume a few pilsners and talk about nascar or the low paying job they have at the casino, or whether the tribe is planning to start one IF that state permits it. None of which has anything to do with pre-Columbian native culture , but there you have it. I read one study which said that the effect of Starting the casino is an increase in adult employment of 29 percent ! which means that on average the effect is that around a third of all adults ends up working in a casino , not exactly hunting and gathering is it. It also may draw back 10 percent increase in population for those created jobs. Which means those people weren't making a living on reservation shooting beavers. And since those are usually low paying jobs , I think its reasonable to presume , that even to a native american that a low paying job is better than pounding acorns. There was indeed a North American method of tending to the land , that was called burning everything , so the things they liked having around Like deer were more plentiful. So much so and for so long that down here in Florida when the burnings stopped vegetation began to change and fire adapted species have had difficulty. This posed a certain difficulty between Europeans and Natives living side by side in places because the Europeans had this idea of having stable farms maintained by crop rotations and so forth , whereas the Natives felt on their part of the valley it was time for everything to get burned to the ground. You can see the problem with having the local natives burning the whole Hudson valley homesteads included right? It came down to having higher population growth rates due to many 'technologies' , that natives were never going to even have a chance to maintain cultural dominance in North America. Not 'faulting' anyone for the outcomes , it was just the push of one culture which had developed at a different pace from the other which decided which way the chips were going to fall. I'm sure the natives have just as many wonderful people just as much vibrance and potential to contribute to what America has become as anybody else, it just doesn't seem like they want to be included in the larger scope, in part , because of reservations , and casinos etc. But I dont think on-reservation communities are thriving hubs of opportunity having those things. Its the idea of tribal affiliation which segregates that community , to a degree. The tribal profiteers can rely on their ability to drum up racial history , cry about injustices to ancestors and so forth ,, and thereby maintain their own situation . They are the mirror of corporations on the other side of the line. Now a days everyone can do an ancestry DNA search , and say to themselves who they should think they affiliate with. Im 25 % Green , I need to be sympathetic with other green people , and oppose people who are 25% blue ! I can now have pride in events I took no part in and take umbrage over things I never even knew happened! Its still racial -regardless of what side of the reservation border your grandparents happened to be cruelly relocated to. My family name is on a town in what is now Russia , I dont claim that eastern Europe is mine , nor even the town is mine. And so some smartie says well your ancestors left , and we were forced from our lands,, well I return that all the Native americans who left Also terminated their rights to any claim on reservation land by that reasoning. And if one is not on a reservation , then who's land is it they think they are on? because it was indeed taken by force in large part, by one means or another., the sovereign lands of the souix would then be ... everywhere in the midwest? And the state Does Indeed have the right by law to permit or not permit gambling according to the Supreme court ( if they allow gambling elsewhere in the state then it is extended to the tribes of some but not all states) then this sovereign 'right' isn't really that at all. Im thinking that if the State illegalizes gambling they can legally shut down every casino in their state. These reservations are at the mercy of american lawmakers , there's no Sovereign 'right' that they cant take, unless they are granted to the people as rights of Americans in general. To me, it makes more sense to offer them collectively full statehood. That is the paradigm of the UNited States. Then they are part of the system with full rights and representation befitting them , as good for the subdued as it is for the nation that warred against them. They aren't some alien non English speaking primitive culture,, , like all Americans , yes , they have roots -but they also have affiliations with the culture as it stands.

I think there's fair reason to call it a race issue, , Someone who claims they have a stake because they have Native american blood is making it so. Especially people who really haven't grown up in the stone age culture of their ancestors, watching CNN voting in US elections, work in our economy , or maybe accept welfare ,then get food at a grocery store, and speak English. That 'culture' is all but gone, and the descendants really only have -some blood ties -and anecdotes , in general. You think they live in tee-pees and eat dinner with flint knives ?

Legal is -what legal permits , , but that isnt exactly whats pleasant or moral , or what suits everyone. Would bullets suit you?

Im sorry I missed that , what evidence are you requiring me to present , and if I present it , what will You do in return?

grew up having been told only that I was 'indian,' and actually resented white people And still having that Us vs Them attitude is problematic to say the least !

By the people who did it , Obviously. "In those cases it's either genocide, integration, or a stand-off of sorts" Rc

Not really the pigment content but , Essentially , Yes, they were considered inferior and being of another culture. Why do you think they were relocated to other places in the United States of America , being segregated rather than integrated ? I'm just suggesting that segregation and racism are wrong. Lets say You were out driving to work , and there's a tortoise in the road,, you have three choices, 1) run over it,, 2) put it in the car with you ,, 3) put it off on the side of the road and leave it there. I think They chose # 3.

Because at the time these 'agreements' were developed ,racism was considered the natural order. Segregating the community into skin colors seemed the reasonable thing to do. That doesn't mean the agreements should be perpetuated forever. Such things should be maintained only as long as they serve the general welfare, and when the time for that is over , it should be tossed.

I think were supposed to be speaking about conventional vulnerability , not that this bardo thing, which I had to look up isnt interesting ,, it is but according to the opening statement which was to set our stage .. Im thinking its not central , and I dont know what to do with it even if it was So I cant really respond to it. “Vulnerability is not weakness, and the uncertainty, risk, and emotional exposure we face every day are not optional. Our only choice is a question of engagement. Our willingness to own and engage with our vulnerability determines the depth of our courage and the clarity of our purpose; the level to which we protect ourselves from being vulnerable is a measure of our fear and disconnection.” - Brené Brown This insight strikes at a core purpose of my personal cultivation. Learning wise engagement with my many vulnerabilities is an ongoing learning process for me. I strengthen myself with the many Daoist and other practices I’ve learnt along the way – but that strength has the danger of becoming a shield behind which I hide my vulnerabilities. For me, it’s all about learning to wisely use that strength to, little by little, allow my vulnerabilities. It’s a slow process because my most sensitive vulnerabilities are so deeply hidden within me that I’m not even aware of them. I can only glimpse them by, for instance, noting how I react to situations and people; to that great teacher called life experience. Strong emotional reactions show me I’m near to becoming aware of some hidden vulnerability

Forgive my bluntness CT, ,, One can, as a Buddhist , be highly arrogant, greedy cruel vulnerable and egotistic , and still be on the path to enlightenment, right up to , and potentially after ,the transformative event and yet still fall back into unenlightenment? I thought yall had things you considered virtues which led to enlightenment.. which was .. well, actually transformative to a state one would consider virtuous. Im assuming you do understand why someone else would consider that to be self contradicting ,right?

If youre a Christian , Ill just leaving that standing as a statement of that faiths belief. Sorry, I forget who is what denomination.

Ok, and what about that other thing,, the spiritual vulnerability of the end result? The scoffing,, thats feeling vulnerable? Ive had to consider this a bit, You feel that in the ascetic tradition, vulnerability is a virtue, because the idea is that if you put yourself through Enough ! self imposed misery, youll abandon your earthly concerns and be happier in the long run... rendering one invulnerable by overdose. However, I dont see how this promotes anything positive for the general welfare, though ,indeed that might not be of significance... I thought you were Buddhist, and agreed with the middle way, promoted by Gautama, that said that the ascetic plan was misguided. Why should a Buddhist consider ones physical vulnerability a virtue , if thats a tenet of a faith, your own faith considers misguided?

Oh, I didnt see it that way, hmmm. I just assumed that it would be daoist virtue, taken to the extreme, personified by the sage, to escape the illusions which bring us pain and cause us to be ... less compassionate, etc , because the soul of a human nature was good , if we could just get there. And therefore the praxis would point you at the virtues of humility, antidote for spiritual vulnerability.

I dunno, My impression was that his task was to show that the physical and spiritual obstacles presented to men were surmountable. So .. I suppose you could reasonably look at that tradition in the way you are. Good answer. So.... are we talking about spiritual woundability or being physically weak? I dont know of any tradition where the idea is to become physically weaker, ,, so.. though your answer is great, it sidesteps perhaps , whether the goal is to remain vulnerable spiritually , or to be transformed to perhaps be beyond that ..or something.

According to your tradition,, once thats done, are you still woundable?

Is the praxis working sufficiently?

If my concentration on the word is but a distraction , I can delete it , just say to. But if we are to understand what one another means, examining the words is important. Its a vehicle to expose the nuance one imbues to an idea. I think its important, to literally lay it all out ,,otherwise one but imagines whether they are understood or understanding. When everyones on the same page, brevity comes into its own, ,no doubt, but especially when it comes to daoist ideas, or the sentiments someone powerfully wants to share , Meaning pivots on a pin. I submit it that ,though it may seem odd, in fact, the majority of discussions actually get cut off far short of the goal, which is ,to come to a concensus of unederstanding., not leave the participants dug into the foxholes they start out digging. I havent done it yet, but Ive considered counting how many quality counterposts a person can reply to without getting vexed., for most I expect theyve be taught to get upset somewhere in the single digit range.

Social currency isnt considered a quid pro quo situation, as you point out. . maybe it should be considered more like a barter system, which would be an even older tradition, which presents certain advantages. Some people amass large amounts of it, and some studies have shown that theres a huge benefit to doing that..... think insurance policy.