Practitioner

forget the bickering, and on to the meat of the discussion, yes?

lol. this dude is really "bringing" it to the other members. I enjoy the in your-face manner in which he writes, however, I think it would be wise if he didnt overdo it. Thats how people get banned; I've seen it time and time again. I would definitely like to see what he has to say, and will be checking out the blog.

There are a few members here who I hold in very high regard, and I make sure to listen when these folks speak. On the other hand, there are quite a few people here who unfortunately, metaphorically speaking, are "full of it". There are certain members here who I do not even bother reading posts from. Oh, XYZ posted? Scroll right on down. Oh, he's the latest poster on a certain thread? Not time to check that thread yet. It's a necessary skill to have in the world of the internet, because any nine year old with a net connection, or even a con man, can pretend to be someone he's not. It happens all the time. Just learn to recognize the signs and act accordingly.

Independent invisible sources? You're the only one here who has any faith whatsoever in Verdesi's terminology of "Lei Shan Dao" of which not a single even slightly prominent source gives credence to. You cannot even provide any source at all independent of David as is obvious. This is analogous to me claiming that there is a pink invisible unicorn orbiting a galaxy far far away from ours. wait, why don't you believe me, what I say is true!!!

Personally I'd have to go with MPG. the opinion of someone who is valued very low is these forums (Verdesi) without any other reliable external sources versus the opinion of a life-long daoist scholar and author of some of the best-regarded books on daoism is well, shoddy support to the contrary really. Unless you have better sources than just what Verdesi has said, and/or achieved lineage holders who openly claim to be part of "lei shan dao"? Come to mention, Verdesi did mention in his website that he was able to unify yin and yang and give people electrical shocks. Did he ever do that to you?

Very interesting, is this all about the literal creation of what they call the "Philosopher's Stone"? and what are the white and red stones? Interesting thing about Hermeticism to my understanding is that they pursue both external and internal forms of alchemy. I'm sorry, is there a much simpler way of explaining it? I'm a simple person easily confused by overly complicated explanations an I prefer to root myself in simplicity and practicality. What is someone supposed to do and what is the main practice?

I've always loved the movie Ninth Gate and the "Luciferian" ideal that mankind can ascend towards the heavens and become something more that just human. I knew that its symbology had a more esoteric meaning but I had never bothered to look into it more deeply, I just knew in my mind that the "hidden path" that Johnny Depp was following in the movie was something that I would love to take, I just didn't know how to get there.

The best appeal that the Mo Pai has is that the spiritual world is real, and attainable through a systematic practice; that we all have the potential for amazing things inside of us that we are simply ignorant and unaware of; that we can become something a bit more than just human if we devote ourselves to it. The negative side is that if you are not Chinese, you are screwed because only Chinese people deserve this, because somehow metaphysical potential and "worth" is also based on racial purity.

Oh sure, lets just industrialize completely the whole planet to the exclusion and death of whole eco systems, and blame it on the other species who "couldn't survive"! Sounds great lol. Just remember, evolution is not about a single species evolving by its own lonesome, it is about the whole ecosphere as one evolving together. What if one super successful species become so successful that it disrupts balance of the whole world? Lets look at it in this way. There's a valley that is full of vegetation, grass, and deers. For simplicity's sake let's limit ourselves to these three species. Suppose the deers find a way to not get eaten anymore by the lions. The lions die off, but guess what? The ultra-successful deer ends up eating everything in the whole valley and soon, we have no vegetation. With nothing left to eat, the "successful" deer end up also starving to death by the hundreds, and then eventually lions, who also have nothing to eat. Or for example another case. The lions become much more efficient hunters and kill and eat deer faster than they are able to reproduce. We then have an overabundance of lions, and no more deer to feed them, and they die too. Ecology is a bit more complicated, but I do believe you understand the metaphors here and the concept that it only takes one super-successful species to completely disrupt and destroy the balance of an ecosystem. Without ecosystems there is no such thing as evolution.

*sigh* welcome to thetaobums where half the people are just full of it

It will never survive the onslaught of liberty-loving teenagers and young adults with access to the internet and Reddit. Google has already announced the implications of this to the world. Now that it is out in the open it's only a matter of time before this thing gets blown off. Anyone remember the backlash from SOPA? http://www.bbc.co.uk...nology-20429625

Doing the MCO but still having major blockages, you obviously shouldn't be doing that as much without removing the blockage at first. You can't put the horse before the carriage; in the same light you should focus on removing the blockages before actually trying to move energy around in any quantity (obviously it is not doing very good for you). Without a doubt I will recommend Hakuin's butter meditation. the one-stop-shop for awesome blockage dissolving and removal. See my response in this thread for more: http://thetaobums.co...-ancestral-chi/

This is my master demonstrating his power. Our lineage is old and goes back many generations. Will you join us?

Honestly I'm a bit disgusted by why everyone has to compare every single thing around here to mopai, or how people try to market themselves and their practices to look like it. It's okay if people are not John Chang or have "electric chi" or can set shit on fire. I would respect people and their lineages more if they just tell things as they are, and also for people to understand that different practices give different results, sensations, and experiences. Not everyone is going to get the same thing everywhere, nor is it expected, but when people insist on comparing themselves to one thing as the "grand standard", and possibly even marketing themselves as such, then you are going to lose out big time on both the intricacies and the subtleties of any particular practice, and in case of a group, obviously it cares more about marketing itself than actually being for what it is itself. I think people can agree with me when I say that this has been seen time and time again in the TaoBums in different forms.. Of course, no accusations are being made against any particular person or group of people here. But I think that those who have eyes that can see will be able to see these things when and where they happen.

in short as I have said before, these people are not interested in telling us anything at all. Nothing about the lineage, nothing about the practice, all they say is "only students learn etc", but the funny thing is that no one has any incentive to go all the way to russia and learn from a lineage they know absolutely nothing about. In short, the topic does not seem to be worth the time nor effort at all.

Magus of java states that only 2 people were ever able to reach the 72nd level and complete the system: Bodhidharma and Chang Sanfeng. Sanfeng is obviously a very well known Daoist immortal, Bodhidharma on the other hand is Indian and is known for bringing Zen Buddhism to China. Interesting that they would say that a Buddhist and an Indian no less, had perfected yinyang gong. even further, yingyang gong is known more or less for spiritism and the power of its practitioner's qi (which one would simply not doubt from one such as Sanfeng), while on the other hand a Buddhist monk like Bodhidharma would most probably scoff at all of these things (or perhaps never use such abilites or actively mingle with spirits).

One can imagine though, if John's lineage teachers were really true blue Daoists, that they lived rather radical lifestyles. The description of Liao Tsu Tong is very characteristic of old-school daoist hermits. In the books its says that his house was empty except for the bare minimum necessities, and that he "never owned anything that other people would desire or envy". So in short the man was a stone's throw away from being one of those beggar hermits, who never concerned themselves with wealth or any degree of materialism. I think that does say something considering that if John's teacher was like this, that perhaps that sort of lifestyle was the norm for all in their particular sect. If there were any lineage spirits still around, I could no doubt imagine their unpleasant thought towards practitioners in this day and age who equate a good deal of things with material wealth and the capacity to give. If their teachings were things that they held more sacred than money (which they never really had much to do with in the first place), no doubt it must be a sting in their eyes to see something so valuable be given away in return for such a small thing (material capacity), especially when the teaching was no doubt based on karma and traditionally doing personal services and respects to the teacher. The second is very recognized pretty much anywhere you go in asia, its a value cultivated by most asian folk cultures in general. On another note, I find it most intriguing when they say the Bodhidarma was a fully achieved mopai. The funny thing is that Bodhidharma could not be further away from chinese than possible. He was a big old hairy indian dude.

http://www.taoistmas...ategory/lukyam/ The above is part of the blog of Mak Jo Si. I know him and Mak Tin Si really don't have a stellar reputation on this forum (especially Mak Tin Si's incessant spamming of the entire forums back in the day), but I have to say, here in Mak Jo Si's blog, the man really does seem to make a lot of sense, and in particular, his treatment and analysis towards popular chinese folk beliefs and deity-worship, because it seems as though he actually took the time to examine from where and when each particular belief comes from. The link above is an interesting read. Check out the link above to read the full articles, but in essence, the gist of it is something as follows: 1.Chinese folk beliefs and deities are as numerous as specks of sand on a beach. 2.Many if not most of these people who actually are worshiping these said deities, have no idea who these deities really are, mostly because it was a hand-me down belief systecm. 3.Most chinese folk adopt a utilitarian approach to deity-worship (bring us good fortune, money, etc) 4. Many of these deities are misappropriated in many different ways (mixing buddhist saints with taoist saints etc, Guan Yu being worshipped alongside Guan Yin despite the two of them having no logical relation whatsoever) 5.In fact a lot of the deities that are depicted and worshipped in traditional chinese culture are in fact just ficititious entities created in different popular novels (three kingdoms novel, journey to the west etc) which been deified through popular culture. Now anyhow, to get this straight, I do not necessarilycondone any of the Maks beliefs, Chi in Nature ltd, or any of their crazier stuff (all other religions are bad, bullshit, will get you possessed, taoism is the ONLY way etc), however, in this portion of the blog, Mak Jo Si really does seem to hit hard against chinese folk beliefs that from his perspective seem rather pointless.. So nevertheless despite some of the nuttier stuff in this group and their blog, I do find this bit of it particularly refreshing and somewhat a more logical approach to the folk chinese beliefs and pantheons etc. For better context, read the blog above, and discuss the topic.

That's a pretty strong statement to make against probably one of the most well known schools here. ------ Honestly, we would all like to know more about the Wu Liu Pai, however, I find it rather pointless for people to even talk about it anymore. We know the following: 1.Wu Liu Pai or at least its members don't want to expose their methods to public scrutiny. 2.Wu Liu Pai holds the stance that sitting meditation is never part of real alchemy. 3.The school maintains that all other methods and schools are inferior, or at least 95% of them. 4.Aside from becoming a student, one will never really know anything in depth about the school. I think the preceding points pretty much sum up every conversation about the school that's ever been on here, and moreso, unless it progresses beyond these points, any more conversation regarding our topic here will be unproductive, and people will not learn anything more in depth about this sect.

The school which seems to emphasize the oneness of both Buddhist and Taoist teachings is the Wu Liu Pai. Their school to my understanding was formed through a fusion of different teachers who were both Buddhist and Taoist, and they emphasized overtly that the path of which that of an Immortal and a Buddha takes are the same, just with different focuses and emphases, and more important;y, terminologies which express the same things through seemingly different words, on the process of self-cultivation. They seem like a very interesting school, as it is the first one which seems to proclaim an overt fusion and oneness of both Taoism and Buddhism, and actually has some kind of history going back in time unlike a lot of so-called lineages today. I do not understand though how they attempt to complete any kind of alchemical conversion though, when their school seems to have a strong disdain for any form of sitting meditation. They love to talk about how other school's alchemy is false and leads only down the path of extinguishing jing and so on, even achieving the water wheel and so on to them is "destroying one's essence" supposedly. They do not seem to want to openly share their practices and techniques, which prevents us from having a look to see if they are just doing some garden-variety qigong (like a million other groups) or something extremely profound like how Taoist Yoga was made. What I do know is that they look down on sitting meditation and also, other schools. The sect has me a bit confused to say the least, as their group and their texts do emphasize immortality, but whether at all they have any notable practitioners who have accomplished anything is something we can't know. What I do know is that they, like the Longmen, emphasize the union of Xing with Ming to achieve their ends, but the Longmen do not seem to hold their view of regarding all sitting neidan as self-destruction, or that 99% of all other school as "false". Just rambling on here, my apologies if there is lack of coherent thought.

Hi again tulku. Nice to know you're back

I think that you yourself my friend have found yourself in a peculiar conundrum. Have you ever seen the movie Dead Poet's Society? It is very much the essence of the situation you yourself are in. It sums everything up in a nutshell.. being that you are very much in a position to be like the teacher in the movie Robin Williams. If you watch the movie you will understand everything, The point is, you cannot take any stand whatsoever and hit both birds with one stone. . If you teach these kids to walk to their own drummers, you will have ingrained in them something that the society around them ultimately will not desire, and will blame upon you much like Socrates for "corrupting the youth". You will become the scapegoat for any and all nonexpected behaviour. Society especially towards young people is all about conformity to expectations.. to "behave", to "prescribe" to any form of philosophy that is being handed down. To encourage the youth to go beyond the borders prescribed by society is to "corrupt" them. You must either teach them to live in an inquisitive, expanded awareness (and face the possible wrath of fellow faculty and disgruntled parents), or teach them to obey, to conform, to live in a state of perpetual malcontent always chasing after the next "achievement", and small-mindedness. To take the middle path is undoubtedly the path of mediocrity. To try and do it both ways at the same time will be akin to trying to make an omelet out of an egg that's already been on the pan - you get neither and a result that does not satisfy either criteria. You can teach them to fly (and risk the ire of society, especially parents, for influencing the youth), as well as having to deal with the results of dodos thinking that someday they will be eagles, or you can just treat them all like chickens, and have everyone around you satisfied with the result, with the sad knowledge that some of them, with the right push, could have become eagles. Question is, which result would you rather choose?

LOL why not just call this the "ChiDragon rambles on" thread?

No one knows who Lin is. He is a mystery in the mo pai world.. McMillan and Danaos without a doubt used to be legit practitioners. Lin for all we we know could be just some random dude trying to make money off of the mo pai name. He has a ton of books on Amazon, and it does not take very much effort to create a pdf and start selling it on Amazon, heck, it has been done before already, if anyone can remember that fraudulent nutter who wrote "The Antichrist Training Manual"... and we all know how bitter MPG was when he got scammed trying to buy the so-called "manual" of the mo pai. Hern Heng is a jewish taiji teacher that sometimes posts here, he goes by the name "Micah Naziri" on their facebook mo pai page... he is the only person in the entire group that has supposedly met Lin or even knows anything personal about him. Needless to say, the details are incredibly sketchy. There is no way to prove the man's authenticity, and the only person's word we have is Hern Heng's. Personally, it looks too fishy for me. but i bet there are a few desperate folk who bit the bullet and paid the man 300$ for the very dim hope that he is who he's claimed to be.

Magical Egypt is a wonderful series, and I do love the emphasis on spiritual immortality, being myself someone quite interested in such arcane concepts. However my peeve with most hermeticism (the stream of esoteric knowledge which is supposedly based off of ancient Egyptan knowledge), is that most it is watered down, overly intellectual and rational, and usually nonpractical. other than hermeticism, one can only really guess at to what kind of spiritual path the ancient Egyptian intiates really entered themselves into. My guess is that they have hidden their methodology in their hieroglyphics and architecture, but I think that it is safe to say, that no one in the entire world is so erudite as to decipher their complete system of spiritual practice into something that we could apply practically. I mean, you hear of hermetist sects left and right (if you are immersed into western forms of esotericism and alchemy).. but most of these turn out to be cults, money making shams, and if they even are true to their intention, even the supposed adepts of their sects are not very impressive. Their members are always doing rituals such as the LBRP and imagining of light enveloping the body etc, but most of the ones that I have seen do not have impressive auras and cannot even do simple practices like energy projection. They seem to drown and dwindle in their lore, and do not achieve anything impressive. and the ones that do always seem to be following systems which borrow very heavily from eastern forms of alchemy. I suppose that even the highest regarded series of book on practical hermeticism, Franz Bardon's series of books, always seem to dwell on working with elements or spirits, but do not transcend or have an end goal to the practice in mind. If a practice is supposed to lead you to enlightenment, or immortality (take your pick), generally, (with the exception of Zen), it will have a pathway for one to follow, a sort of road map where if one follows it, one will achieve a certain degree of attainment and realization. like Daoist alchemy, for example, there is always a foundation on which everything else is built upon. there are always preliminary steps and a foundation to be built, but there is always something being refined, created and harnessed towards a certain goal.. there is a general "path" that you take... which one can refer to determine one's attainment, and what is next to practice. The hermetic alchemists do have descriptions about it, but I have never seen anything on an ultimately practical level on par with the Daoist alchemists. The hermeticists and their sects always stop at theory, or have to steal yogic practices from the Indians in order to find some kind of progression. Daoist lineages have no qualms about these things, the theories and the practice go hand-in-hand. Like for example, filling the dan, strengthening the dan, opening the water-wheel.. these are fairly straightforward practices which are practiced by numerous lineages. The ancient Egyptians, much like the Daoist alchemists, also are immersed in a framework in which the ultimate end is "spiritual immortality". To paraphrase from the series (I cannot remember the exact words), the goal is to train one's self for the final tests in the afterlife, for if one succeeds in passing these, one's soul is granted immortality and "to ride in the chariot of the Gods". What I also find interesting are their concepts of the soul, that in particular, one's soul can be destroyed.. which reminds me of the Daoist dispersion of the hun and po souls after the death of the body. However, how these things are achieved, remain a total mystery, and I suppose always will. I apologize for rambling, but I guess my main point here is that it seems to me, that lineage of alchemists of old Egypt are all dead, and the only living lineages in which one seems to have any path of great energetic progress in current times are usually of far Eastern origin.