astralc

ChiD, interesting question indeed, what I think is that the breath is not the air, it is chi. Chi kung practitioners breath, yes, but the process of breathing is to draw chi into and thru the body, breathing is just a means to another end - chi flow.

TI, this Tim guys sounds like he doesn't need advice at all, but the forum he is chatting on appears to be rather 'lost' when it comes to kundalini, JMHO astralc

ChiD, I have been busy as, plus house is in turmoil while carpet pulled up and tiles laid, so I shall have to be slow in repsonding to your posts. Just quickly, I did read the article, from the section you suggested I certainly agree that we need to determine the bioelectric phenomenon described by Eastern 'chi' and Western 'life-force'. Are they the same? Of course they are, well anyway thats what I think Astralc

Thanks ChiD, what do you think happened when he left for the west, did he go to join other toaists in the mountains? I would be fascinated to hear your thoughts on what Lao Tzu might have progressed towards, was he fully enlightened already or did he move on to further meditations towards a greater understanding of the tao... I am enjoying your commentary of what is helping to form the foundations to my practice. Astralc

Ah, thank you so much ChiDragon, this line is awesome, "Their philosophy was to integrate themselves with Nature as a whole. They were thinking by absorbing the natural energy from what was given by Nature will give them the ultimate state of homeostasis or beyond." Now that I know someone with wisdom that I respect, and who has answers to the many questions I have, I am not going to let you go just yet. Like the guard at the gate who halted Lao Tzu and made him write his thoughts down, I am that guard ChiD, my master taught me how to move and control my chi, but because he was Chinese his English was not so good, and I have never really bothered to explore the theory or history of Taoism. I can fly in my dreams and leap tall buildings in a single bound, but reading your posts I now realise that there is a hole in my understanding. I hope you don't mind if I ask more questions? If you don't mind, would you please give me a description of Lao Tzu himself? Where he came from, his background and how he came up with this amazing knowledge? Thank you ChiD, it is my real pleasure to have connected with an authentic Taoist at last, and like the Dragons of your namesake, they are very very rare. Astralc

ChiDragon, I hold you in very high esteem, as a student of Lao Tzu you have an incredible insight and I love reading your posts. Thank you for squaring up Lao Tzu's intent for me, it now makes sense, but how do we translate his intentions into daily life, for example, while practicing tai chi or kung fu? I believe that he was thinking 360 degrees when he contemplated wu wei, he would have meant that it was both our inner and outer life that must be in harmony with nature. I look forward to your response

ChiD, excellent, I look forward to your insights

ChiD, I like what you are saying but not sure about Lao Tzu's intent of wu wei, as a student of Lao Tzu can you please elaborate on this line, "do nothing to harm society" Many years ago as a rank novice of taoism I had a lucid dream of walking about the world, gently, in a monk's habit and a beggars bowl. Sometimes I have a voice that talks to me in my dreams describing whats going on, in this case it said, "You are doing wu wei." It said that several times. When I woke up I had to go and find out what this 'wu wei' meant because, at that time, I had never heard of it. Thanks, Astralc

ChiDragon, it can be argued that tai chi is just slow kung fu, but tai chi is also about internal development of chi, while kung fu, it could be argued, is about its expression in force. It really doesn't matter, I thoroughly enjoyed watching him, is he your student? Astralc

jaysahnztao, that was brilliant, this guy has a nicely developed dan tien if ever I saw one, thanks.

Owled, from my experience the head is just one big chakra, its enormous, and what we have done is broken it down into parts, namely the Crown and the Third Eye. Inside the head is this enormous network of nerve cells, a bundle or 'ganglion' of nerves, all firing like crazy communicating with the rest of the body, it is of course our brain, the Central Nervous System or CNS. The CNS is so vital to our existence that it is generally protected from over charging by our natural tendency to be in our body, to enjoy being physical and doing things physically. It is placed on the top of our body so it doesn't get over heated when we play or work and pass out. Unfortunately in todays world we tend to spend a lot of time in our heads, thinking, worrying, planning, TV, music etc. but little time relaxing, calming and being at peace with ourselves. Being at peace with oneself is important, it promotes calm states and ensures that the CNS remains at peace too. Meditation is an incredibly healthy exercise for the mind and the body, deep states of relaxation encourage the body to heal and the chi to flow smoothly and harmoniously through the body. Bringing the mind to focus on specific parts of the body will naturally increase that body part's blood volume, slightly increase the blood pressure at that site too, the temperature will slightly rise and that part of the body will become a bit more energised - in short it becomes 'aroused'. However, there is a fly in the ointment here, if you focus on an energy centre, those sites where a ganglion of nerves exist, like the chakras, but especially the head, then that ganglion will also become engorged with blood, increased blood pressure and increased temperature. We can stimulate these ganglion / chakras by meditating on them, but if they are not all that ready/healthy then they will become irritated, inflamed, hyper-aroused and can trigger anxiety and panic attacks. Arousing the head chakras is like playing with fire, it will burn you if you hadn't already put in place some basic safety procedures. By safety procedures I mean the ability to ground excess chi. Traditionally the master would never encourage a novice to open their head chakras without years of practice grounding out through their feet and the ability to centre their chi at the dan tien. Fortunately herein lies some advice for anyone who plays with fire, earth it. For some more detailed explanation, go see my thread on staying out of the head - good luck. http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/23883-warning-stay-out-of-your-head/ Astralc

Arab, so migraines and anxiety? Does she also have sleep disturbance, worry, racing thoughts stopping her from concentrating or sleeping? There is not quite enough information to make an educated comment as yet. I agree that any form of breathing exercise would help, that was a wise thing you suggested to her. By the sounds of it she may not be able to meditate yet due to the anxiety and may need more specific therapy, not meds as already noted, but there are other therapeutic interventions that can help in a big way. You obviously cherish this lady, if you want you can PM me as it appears to be an anxiety issue. Astralc

This thread is a hoot, all have given some incredibly insightful answers. My answer to your question is: I am incredibly spiritual, but the more 'spiritual' I become the more I realise that I am not so 'spiritual'. As someone has already said, 'spiritual' is a continuum, there is no goal or pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Our 'spiritual level' is expressed in everything we say or do, and the more I 'say and do' the more I realise that I am not quite as spiritual as I would like to be.

A taoist (or any energy teacher) is responsible for the welfare and safety of their students. As a master of their own chi they have the skills and knowledge to bring a student to an awareness of their own energy body. I think it is important for us all, particularly those new at chi work, to consider how one learns to move chi through their physical, mental and spiritual / energy bodies. Traditionally, the master would start their student to practice 'being in the body'. This is done through physical exercise, cut wood draw water, tai chi, dao yin, kung fu, walking, jogging, weights, etc. Then they would define what the movements are actually training, feel the chi moving thru your arms, legs, the change in weight and chi flow with each foot movement, etc. They then introduce meditation, focused forms that allow the student to learn how to focus their mind, and then, slowly, their breath. Learning 'deep state' meditation is an important step in this process. It gets the student in touch with their physical body until, in a deep state, they can much easier feel their chi body. One simple technique for this is 'progressive relaxation'. Another technique is breath work, training the breath to slow, to deepen, to move the breath into the dan tien, to feel the chi stir with the breath, and to then flow it out through the feet. Breathing the 1 minute breath, 30 seconds in and 30 seconds out in no mean feat which, by itself, can develop an extraordinary clarity of mind and speed spiritual growth. At this stage the novice is learning to switch from body movement to breath movement then to chi movement, this is the critical time to train safe chi techniques. The master will direct the student to practice moving chi from the dan tien to the soles of the feet and into the ground, for months, if not years. They would not allow any other chi exercise to be practiced. Each day the master would test the student's ability to stay grounded, pushing them at the hips from all angles to ensure that they could stay grounded thru their a powerful chi connection to the earth thru their feet. Then the master would direct them to earth while pushing on their shoulders, to strengthen their torso as well. The master would then direct the student to move chi to their shoulders only, then to the elbows and finally the hands. This process is slow and deliberate. The master does not allow the novice to move chi anywhere else. This is for a very good reason, it is to train the chi pathways necessary to regulate for excess chi flow in the body. The Micro Cosmic Orbit is a common practice in chi kung and tai chi, sometimes it can lead to congestion if done incorrectly. By moving chi on the surface of the skin or about 3" - 4" out from the body can reduce any side effects for students. I like to 'drain' chi into the dan tien using this practice, its a nice way to flow between the 2 exercises, dan tien breathing and MCO. If the novice becomes too congested in any body organ or meridian, the pathways to the dan tien, the feet, and the hands, is already developed and congestion is easily dissipated out and away, safely. This is a safety mechanism, if at anytime congestion occurs due to poor posture, injury, poor diet, or organ failure. Its a safety mechanism for congestion of chi anywhere in the body. When chi moves it stimulates the nerves themselves. Nerves travel along pathways like electric wires, and by forcefully pushing chi along these pathways the nerves become stimulated. Chi has been said to be 'nerve energy', chi and nerves are buddies, best friends, they associate with each other comfortably. You cannot have chi without nerves to feel it. I work with people who have too much chi in their heads, this congestion leads to anxiety, headaches, migraines, panic attacks, delusions, paranoia, dissociation, dizziness, loss of body sensation, tingling of the scalp, sore spots on the head itself, racing thoughts, negative thoughts, restless sleep, disturbed sleep, waking several times at night in panic, nightmares, night terrors, etc. Westerners live too much in their heads, when you consider that most of us work on a computer in a building all day then go home and live inside our house watching TV and playing playstation, we never get out of our heads. We are 'head heavy' and if we have a tendency to worry, to stress we can easily become too congested in our heads. What I do professionally about this can go into another thread, but what I am trying to pass on here is that congested chi in the head is dangerous. As taoists many of us want to astral travel, to OOB, to move energy in fascinating ways like we read on the forum and in books and see on Youtube. But many of us are still novices, and these advanced chi techniques are actually very dangerous. Any exercise that draws chi into the head is dangerous unless your physical, mental and energy body is ready for it. And that is only after years of hard and diligent work building a safety mechanism into your practice. Training each day to centre at the dan tien, to earth out thru the feet and to be able to push chi out thru the hands and of course the Micro Cosmic Orbit. This is 'safe practice', and unless you can do all three in your sleep you should stay away from any practice that moves chi into your head. Below is the DSM VI, the diagnostic manual for psychological disorders used by psychologists to diagnose mental disorders, it is the 'Bible' for all psychologists. It has a section for Chi Kung disorders, Qi-gong Psychotic Reaction, which is also known as Kundalini Syndrome. Links: http://psychscoop.wo...hotic-reaction/ - personal experience http://www.thehumani...MaryGarden.html - personal experience and article http://en.wikipedia....dalini_Syndrome http://homepage.mac....cbs_qigong.html

Jetson, thats an awesome post, thanks. I agree wholeheartedly about being in the body more, spiritual practices from the East tend to push the energy upwards for greater conscious awareness. This is fine for people who spend their day outside in nature, in their physical body, working physically, lifting, cleaning, scrubbing, hoeing, planting, digging, carrying, chopping... but for us Westerners who spend our day inside our heads sitting down inside a building cut off from nature, thinking, talking, typing, planning, organising, etc. we are already in our head, we have great conscious awareness already. Westerners, however, have little physical awareness, just look at our obesity problem. Something as simple as looking into the distance, as opposed to looking at a wall 10 feet in front of you, makes a difference. Long distance vision encourages the brain to produce slow wave activity, mostly alpha. Alpha brainwaves are called 'the resting state of the brain', they put us into a calm, thought-free state. Looking at things close-up encourages the brain to produce beta brainwaves, these are fast brainwaves and encourage faster processing of information and can lead to anxiety and worry, racing thoughts and difficulty in stopping thoughts when trying to sleep. By going outside and getting in touch with nature we can slow our mind, just looking into the distance is calming. Traditional cultures living with nature are naturally more settled, calmer and have fewer mental health problems. But go to any western country where people rarely leave their houses we find much higher rates of mental health problems, suicide, etc. Doing tai chi outside or with a view of nature is always going to be better for our health than doing it inside staring at a wall. Nature rules

thetaoiseasy, great post, nice to have someone stating their beliefs and experience on the forum in such a lucid manner. Keep posting, there are many who will benefit from what you have to say. astralc

Hi K, I worry about those students who rush into the advanced techniques and get burnt. I don't teach any more, at this stage of my life I realise that there is still way too much for me to learn about myself and my relationship with the tao

Rok, well done mate, walk gently walk softly, stay in the tao.

Rok, it should really make no difference if you eat meat or vegetables, we are omnivors so the body we have can cope with just about anything we put into it. Just be patient, do your daily exercises, remain dedicated in your practice and in time, slowly, you will come to feel the chi moving downward and out of your head. It is a slow process, but you have started it and now you just have to stay focused and practice daily. Everything has commented that it could also be unresolved emotional or psychological conflict, that would be a contributing factor, so if you think this the case go and see a psychologist or hypnotherapist or meditation teacher who knows about kundalini, chi and safe meditation practices. Be discerning about who you work with, don't accept just anyone who sounds like they know, test them, ask them questions about chi flow etc. remember that your homework includes researching about this. Another simple exercise is walking, go out every day for at least an hour and walk, if you wear shoes imagine that you have bare feet, and 'feel' the earth, the ground, the leaves and grass etc. at the soles of your feet. Become very sensory and aware at your feet so that you end up earthing your chi downwards, naturally, into the earth thru the soles of your feet. Its called 'kissing the earth with your feet'. Go swimming and do the same thing, feel your body losing excess energy into the water. If you get agitated with all this you can also take a warm shower, it is very earthing and gets you back into your body. Bottom line, practice, practice and practice will mean you succeed, get out of your head and into your body - this means that instead of focusing your mind on your head focus on drawing and moving the chi into your body, especially out your hands and feet, and into the dan tien. And this is a lesson for every novice, don't ever move chi into your head, novices should never tempt fate by trying advanced techniques, it is way too dangerous - thats why we have teachers and masters, to make sure we practice only the safest taoist chi techniques. You may not feel it but you are getting closer to resolving this, even though it may not feel like it just yet, all your diligent practice will pay off soon enough, just hang in there and do your daily practice. You are welcome to PM me to clarify what I have said.

Thanks Manitou, that was nice of you, and I hope you can sort your partner out a bit. Looks like 6 years study was worth it, some of it stuck in my head after all Astralc

WWROA, wow, that is so cool. In my dream I was standing next to my knight attending him to get his armour on (in a real hurry!) as the baddies attacked. We were on a hill side, a sandy slope, a few low scrubby bushes, when the saracens came from the top and left side of the hill, a simple ambush was all it was. Our caravan was spread out down a rough line, maybe 10 metres apart so we had no chance of forming a group to fight them off. We didn't even have our fighting gear ready, most of the equipment was still in bags and on pack horses, and not at hand except swords. Of course I had no weapon at all, I was too busy getting my knight armoured, hands reaching up to help him harness his armour. One wild looking saracen rode his horse full pelt at me and simply sliced my neck half way through. Over and out. Fortunately I had no time to panic, it was over so quickly. That maybe explains my thyroid problem In many of my dreams a past life component is very very common too. I met my future wife many times in dreams before we met in real life when I was 17 yrs old, we had several lifetimes together, that was cool indeed. Astralc

Mokona, yes, many many places to go, you had a fascinating experience too, cool stuff indeed Hagar, mmm, thats weird isn't it, I bet you have worked your ass off trying to work out what it all means, it is soooo hard to 'hack' these experiences. Most of mine are much the same, little rhyme or reason to them and sometimes downright confusing. Where are the instructions to all this? Astralc

Nikoli, good post, Freud described the Ego as the interface between our inner psyche's urges, drives, morals and rules and the outside world. As you stated, a strong ego is necessary for us to manage the stresses of the world out there, there is a reason for this. The reason is the Id, which Freud described as that part of our psyche that is where our urges, disappointments, drives, strengths, hurts, weaknesses, emotional issues, etc. its like a little child pushed and pulled by their emotions, their wants and desires moment by moment. To prevent our being driven by our emotions we need to keep it under control, keep it real and calm, we do that with our Ego. Then he went on to explain that we also have a Super Ego, which is developed from the rules and morals placed upon us by our parents and significant others. This is where we get our shouldn'ts, and shoulds, musts and must nots, have to's etc. The Ego develops early in our childhood according to what we are exposed to by our parents and others. If our parents are balanced we develop strong and balanced Egos, but if our parents are unbalanced and we are exposed to inconsistencies in our upbringing, poor attachment, then we develop weak Ego's which can allow either the Id or the Super Ego to take control and rule our daily life. An out of control Id presents as moody, rude, aggressive, tantrums, tears, Borderline and hysterical behaviours, we become ruled by our uncontrolled emotions. While an overly strong Super Ego becomes an overly religious, dogmatic, controlling thru rules and 'holier than thou' behaviours. Thanks for your interesting thread and letting me rave on

Rok, make sure you do some more research, don't just believe what I or anyone else says, this is an open forum not like sitting at the feet of a respected and experienced teacher. I do hope you have a teacher, someone that knows what they are doing and can help you. As for too much energy, basically everything is right, we have 'energy' and thats that, its when it gets stuck or congested that brings problems. Yes, give that a try, ease it out your feet and hands, its called, 'circulating your chi', what goes out is always replaced, you never lose chi when you push it out. And chi work does take time, and a whole lot of dedicated practice, otherwise pigs would fly and beggars would ride white horses to their choice of free world class restaurants.

Rok, this is quite normal, the chi is already used to going to your head now, charging up your the pineal and crown, thats quite normal so don't worry too much about that, it has become a 'habit' for your chi to do that. What you can chose to do is work, practice, every day, slowly and painstakingly, with diligence and self discipline, working to draw this excess chi out of your head, into your torso and out through the soles of your feet or out through your hands. You can also connect it to the Micro Cosmic Orbit training its downward flow, at the front middle of your body, to drain this excess chi into your dan tien. In this case your dan tien acts like a plug hole in the bath tub, draining chi into it. When your dan tien is full, warm and humming, you can allow it to flow down thru your hollow body, hollow legs and out through your feet, at the soles. This exercise feels really nice too. This will not happen over night, sorry, if you practice daily for 45 minutes then I would expect you to be able to do this quite well within 3 weeks. You will still need to be diligent for maybe a year or so, continuing with this same practice each day, so that you don't allow chi to rise into your head again, it doesn't need to go there. Your dan tien practice is all you really need to do at this stage of your practice, your body wisdom will dictate when you are ready to go to the next stage. We only ever let chi into the head when asleep and as it happens naturally, of its own accord, your body wisdom will know when you are ready for it. This is the safest method. To do so before hand is asking for real psychological and emotional problems. Good luck mate, and please feel free to continue the dialogue, its important, and lots of others with similar issues will be reading this thread.