astralc

maybe dwai could do a short video of himself demonstrating the move and put it on Youtube?

beautiful, nice dan tien in your flow - strong centre

Everything, I love your positive attitude, what you are doing is incredible, if it feels good and supports your life, then keep doing it

Like your teacher, my teacher always said that this style helps us to adapt to the limitations sometimes placed on us in life, I always liked that interpretation.

My pleasure, meow. So glad you have started but space can be a problem, I am lucky because my style, chen style, is done in a small area, maybe 1 yard square, so I can do it in my lounge room between the wall and the coffee table, don't have to go outside in the cold All the best and please keep us posted.

cat, hagar, everything, we are onto something here, if we go further down the Jungian side we find that we can connect with our personal archetypes, and if we want we can use our astrology chart, natal and transiting, to 'talk' with each astrological archetype, discuss issues, resolve them and gain insight into ourselves. I have read Greene and Sasportas's books, I think I might have the lot, I love what they have done for psychological astrology.

dwai, I am not alone, that is nice to know, thanks for your comment. Many years ago I did a lot of healing, acupressure and chi healing, I used my dan tien to 'feel' their chi and sometimes to connect to their dan tien to help them relax. But I never felt it get pulled outwards, it was always me pulling inwards initially, then connecting in balance, I didn't ever take their chi into me.

This has always inspired me. Desiderata <br clear=""> <b> Go placidly amid the noise and the haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant, they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit. If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time. Exercise caution in your business affairs, for the world is full of trickery. But let not this blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals, and everywhere life is full of heroism. Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass. Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should. Therefore, be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be. And whatever your labors and aspirations in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace in your soul. With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams; it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy. --- Max Ehrmann, 1927 </b>

everything, congratulations, you are doing something incredibly powerful, more than most people realise, you are resolving issues and barriers to spiritual growth within your psyche. Please keep us posted on how it goes, delving and healing at the subconscious level frees the Self to move forward, you are doing your own psychotherapy

maya, that was an interesting reaction, when my dan tien reacts it pulls inwards, I have never felt it pull outwards. I am wondering if yours felt it was pulling inwards rather than outwards. The main times it has spontaneously pulled inwards was when OOB and in harms way, it protected me, saved me from some nasties out there. I am thinking maybe yours was protecting you too...?

Good question Zany Heron (love your avatar pic), all I can say is that when I am doing my tai chi and meditating regularly life is so much easier and simpler. When decisions come up it seems like they resolve themselves, I kid you not, its sweet, but then I get lazy and sh_t starts to happen again

greenchild, this sounds a bit like Kundalini Syndrome, a serious condition in which practitioners drawing chi into the head chakras, create congestion and irritation of the Central Nervous System, the brain, and can eventually experience anxiety, panic attacks, delusions and paranoia. I sincerely hope that your condition is not that bad. It becomes a neurological issue. If it is early days and not too bad then yes, definitely do the earthing / grounding exercises described here, train your chi to go downwards, never upwards, you cannot afford further irritation to the CNS. Taoist tantric and kundalini training is designed to start doing earthing and grounding exercises, learning to dissipate excess chi thru the feet and hands, it can take years to do this. They then move the chi slowly upwards over time, sometimes this happens unconsciously, thru dreams and astral travel, OOB, etc. When we rush to push chi into the top chakras we get problems. So, talk to your teacher, and get some acupuncture it might help, then talk to a psychologist for help with the psychological issues if they are there. You might not be able to do any chi work for some time if it is a serious condition, so take it easy, this has destroyed peoples lives, so treat it seriously. You are welcome to PM me as I have experience in working with kundalini syndrome.

meow, can I ask what it is that you do? Is it chi gung or other taoist meditational practices? In answering your question it helps to know where you are coming from. Personally I learned tai chi to realise my spiritual goals, and it has done that and some, I incorporate chi gung, nie gung, walking, bagua, guitar, psychotherapy, aquaponics, gardening and all the other aspects of my life into achieving that goal. What I am trying to say is that tai chi is only part of my journey, maybe for you, if you do find you enjoy it, then it would form part of your journey too. As to your comment: From other sources as I understand them tai-chi is about: - shut down your mind, learn to feel chi - condense chi to convert it into jin - now you can do "impossible" stuff may I suggest that these apply to every taoist practice, not just tai chi. Maybe the person who told you this was just enthusiastic and excited and got a little carried away. The actual feeling of tai chi for me is like slow soft swimming in honey, by incorporating the breathing techniques, dan tien breathing, reverse breathing etc. I will then feel heat in my belly and a rootedness at my feet, my hands will feel like they are radiating energy like lightening. Eventually I will feel like I am inside a ball of energy. So, although I don't use terms like those above, it sort of means the same. I hope this has been of help to you.

sea-dog, from your description of your practice above I don't see you doing anything wrong or preemptive, if it feels good to you then keep doing it. Taoist meditation is also about moderation and listening to your body, you don't come across as obsessive and appear to have a good head on your shoulders, so, good luck and let us know how it goes.

OK, peeing contest it is, lets go, trousers down, peckers out! LOL, more-pie-guy, love your spunk, of course going deep into trance with nei gung is always going to dribble all over what you can feel or do in the conscious state, at least for me anyways, not sure about the Masters. And may I suggest to you, try chi breathing, at the dan tien, and then whole body, move that into a deep state trance. Then let your 'state' go deeper into the unconsciousness and do some astral travel or OOB. If you can do that then we are pissing over the same fence Conscious chi work is, IMHO, fundamental to the practical application of taoism, just as deep state work is, they are each one side of a coin, like the yin yang symbol, no question or argument from me on that front. Anyway, keep up the good work more-pie-guy, love your posts

jay, looks like you are quite highly sexed, if you can manage 4-5 orgasms daily then you may also have an over aroused nervous system, hyperactivity etc. not a problem really, as long as you can cope with it. If you can go a little longer without ejaculating it may mean more energy, but maybe not, you say you get agitated abstaining, and that sounds like an over-aroused system to me. You are also working heavily on raising kundalini, may I suggest that you slow things down a bit there, you already have plenty of energy, raising it more may burn you out a bit. What I am trying to say is that you have plenty of energy, take it slowly, don't rush it, do plenty of earthing and centering to balance out raising the chi. Might also encourage you to do a lot more physical exercise as well. Good luck, many of us envy your abundance of chi

It may be he has been drawing chi into his prostate point, below the dan tien, its easy to do. That might explain his feeling hot lava in his belly after ejaculation. The question remains, why worry about chi meditating after ejaculation, its all about chi, and a man can still draw chi into the dan tien during and after ejaculating with no problems, so I am a little confused. Maybe I am missing something here but this guy sounds like he is worried about something that hasn't really happened. He really needs to sit down and talk to someone in real life, not on the net.

dao rain tao, thanks for reminding me to be nice to people, I am sorry for being so blunt, if we never engage in conversations with others we never learn. Your reporting what you read is fine, its just that this issue of chi leakage is silly, but it did make some of us chuckle, so it was well received. Chi cultivation takes just one thing, loads of practice. Chi breathing at the dan tien is what preborn babies do, us adults can let our instincts guide us to breath, and it will move to the abdominal breath, then with a bit of inner awareness, to sucking / bellows and packing or just silence and water dissolving. Reverse breathing is a little more difficult, but again, with practice it will happen.

Fascinating conversation, getting back to the original question, which I think went something like "where does chi come from?". I can only pass on what I experience, I have drawn chi from outside, Heaven (top of head) and Earth (soles of feet), but prefer to just boil chi in the dan tien. In nei gung, as someone said earlier, we can use the chi already present, but it also comes in from outside, in thru the dan tien, sucked into the dan tien like a vacuum cleaner drawing the chi in. Sometimes it is like the dan tien is the hub of an old wild west wagon wheel. The hub at the centre is on fire and the outer ring of the wheel is also present in the hub, the centre and the outer become one, its a nice feeling, but I can't hold it for too long, either the sensation goes or I disappear into the void. Is there dirty chi? Don't know, as far as I am aware energy is just energy, chi just chi, its how we use it that is the difference. Anyway, just thought I would add my 2 cents worth FWIW. astralc

I would like to add to this discussion and promise to stay away from the technical stuff. The slow deep breathing of turtle breath is certainly not easy, but once started in practice it grows on you. When I meditate I switch through various breath types, bellows to get the chi started, some turtle breathing as I relax downwards and eventually the simple water type dissolving breathing of nei gung as I disappear into the void. I practice chen style tai chi, it is a water style and is all about chi flow, "soft, slow and continuous" are the words my master would say. It is based on deep state relaxation and turtle breathing. I have always struggled with the turtle breath, but, it seems to be so much easier to do when I am nearly unconscious. Moving the breath from the upper dan tien into the lower happens automatically, but it took years of practice to get there. The dan tien can be activated by breath work, but as has been stated in this thread, nei gung, mind work, is another way of activation. And, it took me more years and years to do this, but it happens when I am at my deepest, but sometimes just by thinking of it. The dan tien is the foundation I can rely on, but the feet, earthing, is another powerful technique I like to activate when I do my inner chi work. all the best, astralc

Just thought I would add some western science to our eastern equation. There is a simple device used in hospitals that measures pulse beat, clips onto the end of the finger, it also measures dissolved oxygen in the blood. It also measures the variability between the Sympathetic Nervous System (SNS) and the Parasympathetic NS (PNS). The difference between the two nervous systems is called Heart Rate Variability (HRV). This HRV, if it is small, means that the SNS, which is the aroused system that runs the awakened body, and the PNS which is the calm healing nervous system when deeply relaxed, are too close together. When the person tries to relax (PNS) they bounce back into SNS and become aroused and agitated again - they can't relax. This constant arousal of the CNS and bodily systems creates great internal distress eventually leading to death. The medico's state that they can tell if a person will soon die when their HRV is small (low variability). The reason I brought this up is because we do slow deep abdominal breathing to achieve good HRV, to develop high variability, so that when we are relaxed we stay relaxed and it is therefore harder for our system to jump into the aroused and stressed SNS. We do this by teaching patients to breath at a rate of 6 breaths per minute, thats one breath every 10 seconds. Funnily enough, guiding someone to do this does make considerable difference to their lives, their saturated blood O2 rises, their mood improves, their depression drops, their sleep improves, concentration too and they only have to do it once a day for 10 or more minutes. Daoists do the same thing, albeit using specific techniques, and get the same results. Of course, we aim to go further than mere improved sleep, we aim for immortality

ROFL, yeah, thats the best I have ever read, and it beats blowing chi winds out the back end

good post joeblast, complete silence is a goal, absolutely, and if you can do that then you can do a whole lot of other wonderful things. What I am getting at is that dan tien breathing is not an exclusive practice, there is really nothing special about it, just practice. If you can breath chi then you jump a level so to speak, and, as you get better at silence, even in dreaming, you may start to enter states that will teach you other meditational techniques, from your own subconscious. I get ahead of myself, all I wanted to emphasise was that we shouldn't restrict Taoist practice, even amongst ourselves, dan tien breathing, packing and reverse breathing are free, to everyone, and the results each person gets are the result of the amount of practice they put into it. And no one gets 'there' without practice, which is why so few people can do it. Hope I am not raving here...

dao rain tao, if you please, why would dan tien practice not be suitable for everyone? I do agree that working 'single minded' on the dan tien will cause issues with chi congestion. But suggesting that celibacy and watching thoughts is a healthy and more suitable practice for cultivating chi in the dan tien, I believe, is quite inaccurate. Even a beginner can start chi breathing at the dan tien, they might not feel much, and it will take them a very long time to feel anything, but it won't hurt them one whit - and I talk from experience working with people. I don't want to sound rude, but do you practice chi cultivation?