amoyaan

This is interesting. A while back I realised that I've always carried a kind of inner tension within me...sometimes very subtle and unnoticeable, at other times more pronounced. I was able to isolate it as a sensation in the pit of my belly...a tension that had been with me a very long time. It's almost like the feeling of a clenched fist -- an inability to let go and relax; a mixture of fear, lack and insufficiency. It feels like it's almost like the basis of samsara itself....a black hole with tremendous gravity that pulls us in, hooking us into mis-identification with fears, doubts, thoughts, etc. I don't know if anyone else has ever become aware of this. I don't think it's specific to me. What I did start to do was bring my attention to it, and instead of trying to consciously get rid of it, I learned it was best to bring an energy of allowing to it, and acceptance...and to let go of wanting to change it, or any aspect of myself. To try to change it or eliminate it just added more resistance and more power to its gravity. Just gentle sustained attention, and an attitude of curiosity seems to really ease it...it loses its power and I feel my whole being relaxing. Of course, this modern life has a million different ways of stressing us and triggering that inner tension, but the more I observe it, the more it eases. Following this I find an effortless style of meditation like shikantaza, where there is no attempt at manipulation, no method or goal, seems to really aid in this natural relaxing of a deeply ingrained tension. It seems to loosen out the knots we accumulate along life's tumultuous path...and I find it easier then just to rest in awareness.

That's beautifully expressed and very informative Dwai. Dharma is such a vital understanding, and one that seems to be left out of most of the modern western teachers. It seems the way Westerners have interpreted and presented Hinduism is pretty misleading generally...I guess this would go back to colonial times and before. I remember in Religious Education classes in school, we'd briefly touch upon Hinduism, the religion where they worship elephant men and little blue guys playing flutes...which is pretty much all I got from it back then. Little did I know how much a part of my life it would become. And, an excellent point 3Bob. Most religions or spiritual paths can pinpoint a founder or group of founders, but in this case, there's not even a definite starting point, it seems to go way back into the mists of time.

Thank you Michael It's funny, I haven't done that for quite a while, mainly due to time constraints of fitting all practises in...but it crossed my mind just the other day to get back to it...so i will do that, every day.

Cool, thanks for the information...I will look up Yuen method, I've heard it mentioned here too. Yup, I have been looking into old relationship patterns and been doing a lot of work on that area. In fact, just about every area, all across the board. I love the way you put that - "a weakness is just energy that's not supporting you". Very helpful thinking of it in those terms. Yeah, maybe damaged is the wrong word, maybe the impression I got was more like weakened. I don't know.

No I haven't. Didn't want to bother him, he's a busy dude. I don't think it's a major issue, I was hoping it was something I could just clear myself, I just felt I needed some suggestions

Thanks guys, appreciate all the advice, some of the things I've been doing, the others I shall give a try Wow thanks for the detailed response, Friend. A lot to take in here, I will use that technique for using my hands...sounds very helpful. The image I got of it was a kind of crater that gunk was collecting in...funny. I also realise I wasn't being diligent enough with shielding. This has been going on for a number of months. Thanks Manitou, that's interesting. I didn't want to go into the personal stuff too much but I have spent a lot of time looking into that and wondering why I drew the experience to me. I think it was old relationship patterns that drew me to it and the fact I was recovering from another breakup at the time. He maybe didn't have full-blown sociopathy, but I'm pretty sure he had narcissistic personality disorder, from my knowledge of psychology, observation and comments he himself made (I think he knew it too, he even joked about being a psychopath more than once). The relationship patterns fit the NPD/sociopath 'formula' to a tee. I turned a blind eye to all the red flags and didn't see what was in front of my face, the way he treated me and others and a seemingly lack of any form of empathy. But yeah...rather than placing blame I spent time looking into why I attracted this and i concluded it was hurt and wishful thinking on my part. I realised I was coming at relationships from a place of lack as well. Thinking I needed someone to be whole. I really had to challenge that. I did some major work, even spending a couple of months with my spiritual teacher and I got to the root of it all. I actually think my inner dynamics have changed a lot since it all happened. It's just there are still some scars and I can feel animosity being sent my way still. I guess it'll all burn itself out though.

Thanks for the insight Dwai I have been reading up on Hinduism to fill in my knowledge a bit and now realise that it's not a single path or single religion, but more of an umbrella term for various traditions and paths, if that's right? Seems the term Hindu arose from a geographical description rather than anything!

Thanks for sharing 3Bob, that's interesting...I hope to learn more about this relationship, it's an area I'm not that 'up' on

I'm told he did write some good stuff, not that I've read much of it. I may have a look. He was a very learned scholar and certainly know how to talk the talk...so credit to him for that. I;m sure he maybe even had ephiphanies and some enlightenment experiences...in the days before the platform shoes, machine guns, bodyguards and rolls royces lol

No worries 3Bob, thanks for the original article, I'd added it to my to-read list and about to get to it right now

You're welcome ThisLife, I'm glad you found it interesting and that it made some sense to you. I don't spend much time online but for some reason felt like I wanted to take the time to discuss it a little bit and share what i'd learned. I should have said that your comments and perspective from 'the outside in' with regards to vedanta, are understandable and common..I shared similar sentiments in the past. There's a general reticence in the west I think when it comes to what might be perceived as 'institutionalised' or structured paths...lone figures like Adyashanti and Mooji somehow appeal more to the average Joe because they have their 'own teaching', which is somehow seen as preferential to musty old teachings dating back centuries. What I found though, was that...well, these guys figured out consciousness, enlightenment and the nature of life centuries ago! They expressed it so beautifully and completely, covering all bases that continually trying to reinvent the spiritual wheel is unnecessary and sometimes counterproductive. The purity of the teaching has been preserved by the remarkable way it has been passed through the centuries via sanskrit mantras in a way impervious to corruption and tampering; really, the method of transmission is an incredible art in itself! James was taught by Swami Chinmayananda and Swami Dayananda, two of the most celebrated vedanta teachers of the past century (it's no exaggeration to say they are both spiritual giants). He's living in Spain at the moment and teaches in Europe, the US and in India sometimes. I've travelled to Spain to see him twice the past year. His book 'how to attain enlightenment' (don't be put off by the slightly naff title ) is astounding - I can't recommend it highly enough, I understand it was the first book in English to cover the entire breadth of the teaching of vedanta, in a very clear, concise and relatable manner. If you take a look at the contents page you'll see the scale of what's covered http://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Attain-Enlightenment-Non-Duality-Spirituality/dp/1591810949/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1400091021&sr=8-1&keywords=james+swartz It did take me a couple of reads for it to start sinking in, it's pretty immense.... His website www.shiningworld.com has a wealth of stuff on it. You can download free books on the Publications page, I recommend 'Knowledge of Truth (Tattva Bodha)' http://www.shiningworld.com/top/images/stories/1_Knowledge_of_Truth_Tattva_Bodh.pdf and 'Meditation: Inquiry into the Self' as a good starting point http://www.shiningworld.com/top/images/stories/pub-pdfs/Books/(3)%20Meditation%20Inquiry%20Into%20the%20Self.pdf There are hundreds of hours of free audio seminars to download and thousands of 'e-satsangs' covering every topic conceivable in the form of his response to questions and emails. I don't think there's another spiritual website like it, in terms of the sheer amount of stuff on it, freely available. James is the clearest and most skilled teacher I have ever met, his energy and ability to communicate incredible and his bluntness and tendency to be outspoken rather refreshing. His seminars are open to anyone, and he teaches by donation. If you're interested, definitely check out his book/s and the free audio.

Haha. I'm glad you've been finding it of interest ThisLife. You seem genuinely interested in learning more, and I'm happy to share what I know, not with the intent of changing your viewpoint but simply to explain vedanta a bit. I've been immersed in not only the study of vedanta for 3 years but in applying it to my life and living it. That said, I'm still a student and certainly not the ultimate authority, so maybe if I say anything that doesn't tally with vedanta someone else can chip in and better elucidate. When one approaches vedanta the tendency to evaluate what we're hearing in terms of what we think we already know has to be set aside, at least temporarily. The first stage is called sravanna...in which we just expose ourself to the teaching and LISTEN, setting aside all preconceived notions, including all our existing beliefs and opinions of and ideas about truth. Because otherwise, as you say, we evaluate what we're hearing and filter it through the net of our existing beliefs -- which invariably contain both elements of truth and ignorance. This can be very difficult because we may have spent decades amassing all kinds of spiritual ideas about what constitutes 'truth' (which obviously can't be truth, or at least the whole truth, otherwise we'd be free and no longer seeking haha!). Often in new age type circles (not meaning any offence to said circles) there's a notion that you just take what 'resonates' and leave the rest. This doesn't work with vedanta. It's a full, comprehensive teaching and it requires at least a temporary setting aside of what we think we know in order to actually hear what's being said. This is quite easy to do when you spend time with a self-realised teacher, and when you meet others who have been liberated by the teaching. It's extremely humbling. When I first encountered my teacher, James Swartz and got to know him and people who had been liberated by the teaching I suddenly realised that I knew nothing...even after having amassed all kinds of spiritual 'knowledge' and experience over the years. So humbling...it just stripped everything away from me and left me wide open and willing to learn. I found it easy to set aside all the notions I'd collected over the years and just listen and be open to learning, because I could see the power, purity and efficacy of the teaching. The second stage is called manana and involves clear reflection upon the teaching -- we take our old beliefs and then evaluate them in the light of what vedanta says. And if we have a really good, qualified teacher, then the logic of vedanta is pretty much ironclad. we can ask whatever questions you need to build a clear picture in your mind. And we tend to see that many of the old definitions we had of enlightenment, etc, are erroneous. I mean, they'd have to be...otherwise we'd already have been enlightened To make it clear, vedanta isn't about adopting a new set of beliefs. It's simply an analysis of the unexamined logic of our own experience...which leads us to not just believe, but to see ad fully KNOW that we are not this apparent body/mind/ego entity, but pure awareness, limitless, whole and complete. It starts of with an element of taking the teaching on faith, until we examine it in light of our own experience and then see, realise and integrate its truth. True, depending on the way you look at it. I'll say more later I don't believe this to be true at all. Vedanta is not in itself a religion, although it does form a kind of philosophical basis of Hinduism. Interestingly, I know a few Hindus, and largely find theirs to be a devotional religion -- I don't even know how many Hindus even know much about vedanta, much less use it as a means of self inquiry, self knowledge and liberation. It seems to me that much is based on the karma kanda section of the vedas rather than the upanishads. There's simply no comparison between vedanta and catholicism; vedanta is not about dogma, priests or religious hierarchy. It's simply a means of self knowledge involving a dialogue between a student and a teacher, examining the nature of consciousness/self and one's understanding of reality (which is essentially the same thing). There may appear to be religious trappings -- the teaching is based upon a scripture and bhkati/devotional attitude is encouraged as a means of preparing and purifying the mind the assimilate the teaching. But any comparison with catholicism is completely erroneous once you actually know what vedanta is about and how it works. They are like night and day. Harsh though it may sound, criticism of neo advaita is legitimate. It sounds terribly spiritually undemocratic but all paths are not equal -- in terms of clarity of the teaching and the results they get. The Neos have cherry picked elements of vedanta but without the full picture to back it up and a time-tested methodology to actually realise and integrate the teaching...it just, by and large, doesn't work. My teacher is renowned as something of a lion in this matter and this is a well-known article that succinctly outlines the issues -http://www.shiningworld.com/top/files/satsang-4/(1)%20A%20Critique%20of%20a%20Neo-Advaita%20Teaching.pdf It makes for an interesting read. He never hesitates to pull his punches, and I think rightly so. Here's another very in-depth and insightful critique of neo advaita - http://www.enlightened-spirituality.org/neo-advaita.html This is not to say it has no merit. A lot of the neo teachers are well-intentioned and genuine people, and may even be enlightened. If someone enjoys listening to them talking about awareness and doesn't mind shelling out cash to attend their satsangs etc, then I say great! I have a great fondness for Eckhart Tolle as his stuff helped get my foot in the door and eventually led me to vedanta. I believed he's a realised guy...although as vedanta states (and this will sound horrifying to some) just because you are enlightened doesn't automatically qualify you as a teacher. You have to have a legitimate teaching and methodology...q&a satsangs and some vague unstructured talk about the self and awareness aren't going to enlighten anyone unless they are already highly primed and 'qualified'. I've known many devotees of Eckhart and Adyashanti (who I think is actually generally a good teacher), etc, but I've never actually met anyone who was set free by the teaching. It's generally not enough for most people. Vedanta on the other hand has built up as a kind of science of consciousness over the millennia, and like any science it is precise and its results replicable. I know this may sound very elitist to the uninitiated...but in my experience it is true. Knowledge IS power. This has nothing to do with western scientific materialism. Knowledge has always been power -- early mankind developing the knowledge of how to create fire, for instance. With vedanta you are not trying to gain anything from the world -- so it's totally not spiritual materialism. It's not like The Secret or law of attraction, which IS spiritual materialism. When you come to vedanta you gotta be clear that NOTHING in the world can actually give you lasting happiness/fulfillment/joy -- and that includes any experience, including spiritual experiences!! If reality is nondual, as vedanta teaches, then we are already experiencing the self/totality/wholeness right now. It's impossible to experience anything else. We already ARE everything, so what can we possibly add to that? Our problem then is not an experience problem, it's a knowledge problem. The problem is we lack self knowledge -- we don't know that we are the self, that we are whole and complete, limitless, non dual awareness. Vedanta is about self knowledge, the ultimate knowledge. When we know what we are, that there's nothing we can possibly add to ourself and that nothing can ever be taken from us, then the seeking stops...and we experience the wholeness that we are. It's necessary to understand the 'mechanics' of it, the mechanics of maya because the key component of vedanta, the real crux of liberation is what's called discrimination; being able to differentiate between the 'real and the only apparently real; between satya and mithya, the self and maya. Maya makes us appear to be limited, lacking, inadequate little entities and this is the source of all our sufferings. This however is taking the rope to be a snake, the apparent to be the reality. It's not about manipulating anything or trying to become more/better/different...it's about simply knowing the truth of reality. Hope my explanation above clarified This is true from one level but can be open to misinterpretation. True, a large part of the enlightenment or self-realisation process is grace; it happens (or it doesn't) and it's not up to us. The doer simply cannot control the outcome of the result. However, this doesn't mean that we can simply sit on the couch, eat pizza, scratch our ass and play Xbox for 20 years and enlightenment will come. It does happen when the mind surrenders...but a lot of groundwork has to be laid before that can happen. It's not the nature of the mind to automatically surrender unless we've perhaps gone through some enormous trauma. Really, vedanta is about educating and re-orienting the mind and the locus of our experience of self...shifting it into identification with the pure awareness that we are. This doesn't come easily, which is why of all the millions of seekers out there, there are so few 'finders'. I takes work, it necessitates 'qualifying' the mind (vedanta elucidates these qualifications very clearly)...adopting the appropriate lifestyle etc that will purify the mind, learning dispassion and how to discriminate the real from the apparently real...dealing with the unconscious content of our own mind and all the subtle layers and levels of ignorance and mis-identification. Learning to train oneself to 'stand as awareness' and to embody that truth in every area of one's life and experience. It's really not for the faint of heart. Seen from the absolute perspective, yes, it's all just doing itself......but from the relative perspective, there's a heck of a lot of work! WHEW! Hope this makes some sense. Again, not my intent to change your mind or convince you of anything -- what you think is your business, not mine -- I just wanted to clarify some misunderstandings about vedanta and how it works.

Glad it make sense, ThisLife. I'm so grateful for finding vedanta, or it finding me as was probably more the case...it's helped me immensely and I genuinely love it and love sharing it. It can be a truly Herculean task! And for something as simple as knowing that we are awareness! Maya is just so darn, devilishly immersive and extroverting....the answer is there for us, hidden in plain sight, but life just keeps coming at us with all its amazing, beautiful, sexy and monstrous distractions! The pull of samsara is so immense. Yet that drive to seek beyond it is the pearl in the oyster, so to speak

Haha. interesting site. Rating gurus like bottles of wine! I do find it amazing and worrying how many people revere Osho and are completely unaware of his drugged up, sociopathic/megalomaniacal tendencies. Most the people I see posting his quotes on Facebook would be horrified if they knew he was not only the perpetrator of the first recorded act of bioterrorism in the USA, but also praised Hitler, said Jews were better off in 'beautiful, scientifically-marvellous gas chambers' and declared homosexuals to be not even human beings. The more I read about the real Rajneesh the more horrified I am about what so-called 'enlightened masters' can get away with

I can see this issue from both sides, but I have to say that when it comes to understanding the subtlety and nuance of a system like vedanta, it's necessary to learn certain Sanskrit terms. Sanskrit is the language of consciousness, incredibly beautiful and nuanced, there are simply no English equivalents for so much of it. Or if there are equivalents, they are unhelpful as they have so much 'baggage' associated to them: words like enlightenment, God, ego, even consciousness. Wide open to interpretation, which doesn't work with vedanta...you gotta be on the same page if it's going to work. Vedanta is a science of consciousness and like any science uses language very precisely to avoid ambiguity and misunderstanding. I saw a thread where someone was asking how to get enlightened; but I think the problem was probably just about everyone involved in the thread had a different definition of enlightenment, which can lead to all kinds of crossed wires and confusion. I think part of the power and efficacy of vedanta is it uses words with great clarity and precision; which is dualistic yes, a dualistic means of realising non-duality! but that's how it goes. There are a number of traditional vedanta teachers who now teach in English thankfully, but there is danger in completely de-contexualising this system...as seen in neo advaita. It's not really enough to do as the Neos do and just say 'you're awareness, all the rest is an illusion'...that doesn't explain a damn thing. It's not just the terminology they lack, but the actual logic behind the statements such as "You are That". Vedanta explains the workings and relationship of the apparent individual, awareness and maya...which is really necessary to grasp the 'mechanics' of non-duality, existence and identity. It's not necessary to learn sanskrit as such (although I'd actually like to - it's beautiful!! I adore the sound of it) but certainly it's important to be open to expanding our vocabulary, there are simply no appropriate English equivalents for very important terms. The word enlightenment itself has been interpreted a million different ways by a million different teachers but vedanta uses the term moksha...very clear, very precise, very understandable. The way we use words is so pivotal to our understanding and entire outlook. Words are immensely powerful...

I can relate to this actually because I felt the same thing happening to me. You realise that nothing is 'solid', nothing lasts, nothing has any innate meaning other than the meaning we ascribe to it. The world isn't what we imagined it to be for all those years and "I" am not what I imagined myself to be. I think maybe depersonalisation is the realisation that there is no person as such...it's a construct, a dream character like whoever we happen to dream ourselves to be at night. Also the moment we chase after something in the world and attain it is the moment we lose it because of the ever-changing nature of the dream. I got very depressed and demotivated over this. I had similar symptoms to you, Sunchild. Friendships slipped away and my emotions evened out so much I didn't experience great elation about anything anymore but neither did the little things (or even at times fairly 'big' things) bother me. I like the teachings of vedanta though because they help us see that the emptiness is not the final stage, that the emptiness is actually a fullness. James Swartz says that after all this realisation stuff, it's important to give the mind something to do -- the mind is goal-oriented so it helps to still do things we enjoy...not because we seek to gain something from it, but just to give the little dream self some projects to keep it happy and ticking over Whatever floats our boat, as they say. I write. And I got a puppy. Animals rock.

I've read James Swartz talking about depersonalisation in a few of the satsangs on his website. Dunno if this might be of help. (from http://www.shiningworld.com/top/images/stories/newSatsangs/November_2011/Between_the_Devil_and_the_Deep_Blue_Sea.pdf) "You cannot engage because you know there is nothing there. It is a kind of existential limbo. The problem is not that the world is empty, because it isn’t. The problem is that you can’t see that you are full.You are unable to turn your attention away from the body and mind and the world and look at the one who knows that the world is a dream. When you do this, you see that the emptiness is actually a fullness, that everything is meaningful and beautiful and that there is no need to connect with it because it is already connected to you."

Personality is a construct and the idea of being a 'person' is ultimately an illusion. The 'person' and personality we adopt (persona) is usually driven by our unconscious tendencies, conditioning, programming, etc...in vedanta they call it the vasanas, coloured by the gunas (no, autocorrect, not 'tunas'). I think the more we clear out our crap and 'strip away the layers of bullshit' as MooNiNite said, the more freedom we have to express who we want to be with clarity and freedom. We can cultivate qualities we might like and root out those we don't want. Sometimes it's a matter of 'faking it till you make it'. I watched Kumare the other week and was struck by how a completely fake charade actually changed the guy pretending to be the guru and his disciples.

Hey guys, I've been trying to get a little clearer on the art of cultivation and the philosophy and reasoning behind it. Firstly, I was wondering how cultivation has come to be such a fundamental aspect of Taoist practise? Lao Tzu doesn't appear to talk about it in the Tao Te Ching, although I guess there are so many different ways of interpreting it that maybe he could have obliquely referred to it. But to me, while not incompatible, the cultivating mindset seems to somehow go against what I perceive as what Lao Tzu was saying. He seemed to be urging us to quit striving and straining and trying to add more to ourselves, but just to let go and flow with the Tao, that which is already there, already whole and complete. Is cultivation directly related to the idea of becoming an immortal? I don't personally go in for the immortal thing, because I believe we already are immortal (as consciousness/awareness). But I do believe Taoist energy practises can be very beneficial on a number of levels and have do Stillness-Movement neigong and zhan zhaung mainly for health reasons...I also believe they are good at helping create a still and peaceful mind. So I wouldn't be without them. I also like the kind of passive nature of these practises as you are allowing healing and energy to build in an actionless-action kind of way. Any thoughts?

I read Chuang Tzu years ago, having borrowed a book from a friend. I think I need my own copy Yeah....the butterfly! Some days I'm actually pretty much convinced I AM the butterfly...

Thanks Grandmaster P...this is really interesting and makes sense. I find it fascinating learning how traditions develop, often it's from an intermix of different elements. I was trying to join the dots myself but couldn't quite connect them. Do Martial arts stem from Taoist philosophy somehow or were they there before but kind of got intermixed culturally? Maybe I should find a decent history of Taoism book at some point. Although a lot of it would probably be conjecture I guess. Hi OldChi. Yeah, generally I find sexual energy is not an issue, except for some isolated times when it gets out of balance for whatever reason. I can naturally go for a week or several weeks without wanting to indulge, which i guess could be good or bad depending on who you ask. It's the emotional side I've really been trying to get a grip on lately...I've carried a lot of emotion and it's all been coming to the surface to be dealt with, which has been very painful. But it's all part of a healing process I guess. My health is a little bit better than when I first started to practise but it's still an issue, and has been since I was a kid. In addition to qigong and meditation, etc, I am seeing a guy who is a very skilled acupuncturist/herbalist trained in TCM, CCM and ayurveda and a number of other things. He's helped me understand what's going on physically, most of which stems back to childhood when I had aggressive cancer and had what was then an experimental chemotherapy drug which cured the cancer but left my body a bit of a mess. There are no quick fixes, but hopefully there will be ongoing progress.

Also....I have some questions about semen retention which seems to be a very big thing in Taoist practise for males. Does anyone know where this idea comes from? Again, Lao Tzu said nothing about this. Is it from other Taoist or Chinese texts? I practised retention for about 90 days a couple of years ago...and was impressed at my discipline but I really didn't notice much difference, except for the fact my libido seemed to wither after a while. I'm not sure whether that was altogether good or not. It was never really out of control in the first place. A lot of guys here seem to get amazing benefits from semen retention, but I'm really not sure what to make of it. Lots of mainstream studies seem to say that masturbation has a number of health benefits? The Taoist theory seems to be that excess masturbation/ejaculation has a deleterious effect on the body and energy. Which I can understand if it's excessive. But a friend of mine told me he masturbates at least twice a day and he's in amazing health and looks at least 10 years younger than he is. Go figure! My natural impulse is to moderate. I think the real problem is when a sex/masturbation/porn vasana gets out of hand and one has no control over it, rather than the actual spilling of seed so to speak? Because a compulsion like that is clearly a great psychic and energetic drain. I like to be in the position where I can say yes or no to a sexual impulse. Interestingly I noticed that the times I felt a compulsive need to masturbate or whatever was usually when I was going through some emotional disturbance and it was like a way of covering up whatever suffering I was experiencing, like a comfort thing. When my mind is reasonably stable and I'm feeling good, there's no compulsion.

I imagine this probably applies to a lot of threads on TTB

.

So cool he shared this online Enjoy. "This is the complete recording of a Vedanta Retreat, given by vedanta teacher James Swartz in march 2014 at Yoga Vidya Westerwald-Ashram in Germany. It is recommented to watch the videos in the row from the beginning. Vedanta is not just Knowledge but a methodology of it, it destroys step by step ignorance." Upwards of 20 hours, all available to watch on youtube