thewhitetiger

At one time It was the Women who were the Taoist Healers and Shamans (Yes I know the word Shaman actually describes the Shamans of a particular group in Turkey and Russia...but I do not have a better word with me at this time...) They were the ones with the Sacred teachings passed from one generation to the next. Unfortunately the Confucian view had stopped all that... I wonder how much has been lost...not only in Taoism but in so many of the other worlds Spiritual teachings.

My viewpoint is the opposite as well. Considering that White Tiger, Hsing Yi, Baqua, and other Southern internal systems have qigong integrated right into them As are most Taoist Arts. With 7000 forms of Qigong, 5 families of Tai chi and their multiple branches as well 1000 Form of Kung Fu (Internal and external) His statements baffle me... As Ken Cohen (who is a Lineage holder, Taoist Initiate and Scholar), Grandmaster Feng Zhiqiang, Joel Rizzo, Tom Rizzo Bruce frantzis, Garry Hearfield, Terry Dunn, and many many more are Chi Kung, Tai Chi and Kung Fu Teachers I find it very Arrogant to dismiss them so out of hand. That is why I had no interest to hear what he had to say. It is his personal Bias, or he is such a stickler for precise wording that it borders on Aspergers Syndrome territory. This all comes down to the views of an individual who may state his opinion, yet it has no bearing on my own experiences and personal views. I found it quite strange that he took such a simple question and decided it was "Complicated". No He chose it to be complicated. Wide generalizations are made yet simple view cannot be stated.

In truth, no. It is really has nothing to do with me.

You are aware that you have so work to do. That is GREAT! We all have self work, every one of us. We are not here to compete with each other on our awareness or state of enlightenment. Start with understanding that we must encounter elements that will trigger areas for us to grow. Become gentle with that understanding. Self-Patient. Meditate on what the root of these triggers. What is it specifically that brings up these hard emotions. (I am speaking of your family dinner of course and your interactions with your Mom.) Let go of the self-punishment of the guilt you are feeling from the outcome. This can be seen as simple emotional growing pains. On of the Ripoche's from the 70's once said "If you think you are enlightened spend the weekend with your parents." I laughed when I heard that...because it is true. Our greatest triggers come from our authority figures, or those who pretend they are in authority over you. Our Parents are our greatest nest of Triggers (IMO) It is an excellent resource of self-work you can do. Do NOT bury your emotions, but see where they come from, understand the trigger. You may need to find ways to express them in a healthy Manner (The 6 Healing sounds Chi Kung for example combined with Flying Phoenix or Hunyuan healing Motions) One thing I am personally not comfortable with is communication through Forums though...so much is lost in this form of discussion, so understand that my suggestions must be modified by you with the understanding that I am not experiencing your challenge as you are. I only offer my suggestions as a form of support. I want you to have the knowledge you are not alone in these experiences and there is no judgement.

When it comes to discussion on a Forum I like to keep things rather simple.

Wooops...That was supposed to be "NOT" want to learn. What Labels, names, description would you accept from someone describing what they teach in a general term? Why would you not want to learn from someone who teaches chi kung and Kung fu? What are your requirements that satisfy what you are looking for in a Teacher?

That is a bit Vague. When you consider that these terms are widely used by authentic and non-authentic teachers. *Edit* Well I would want to learn Tai chi from a Karate master myself... EDIT of my EDIT *That should be WOULDN'T or Not. What terminology would you accept from someone?

Very interesting thread. There are so many factors to this. If the teacher is a hardcore traditionalist it is most likely the student will only learn the surface or most peripheral elements, especially if that teacher already has other more senior students. No mater the amount of personal time dedicated to training that teacher will not be interested in teaching some of the more in-depth, spiritual or technical aspects. In a story that was told to me by my one of my own teachers, a Master from the early 20th Century taught chi kung and kung fu very traditionally..he never taught more then the surface of the art to everyone except for two of his senior students, who had been given the real elements that would make the art work. One day he encountered a family member who was dying of a disease. He knew he could help this man but he never put in the time his other students had done, yet without his help he would surely die. He finally took it upon himself to teach this family member the true healing methods. In the hospital he would arrive everyday to teach and everyday he found so many others that needed the knowledge he had in order to live.The dying man did heal himself and was so grateful he praised the Master for his generosity. The Master broke down, feeling great shame, he held his knowledge selfishly back from so many others who could have lived a better life if they had the knowledge he possessed. It was from that day forth he began to teach the true depth of his art. He taught it to the sick and dying, he taught women and he felt a great weight lift from him. Now personally I have encountered teachers that should not be given the time of day. Mostly because of deep narcissistic and insecure personalities. These are teachers to be avoided at all costs. But they do not reveal themselves at first...one must be so very cautious. When that student is ready the master will appear. I say only if the Master has truly Mastered themselves, not in just discipline, but in their own spirituality and fearlessness. Not combative fearlessness, but social fearlessness, cultural fearlessness. When they choose a course of action outside of tradition or the ridicule of others.

Well all I can do is offer my limited views on this. It truly is NOT your responsibility to be her emotional cure. Also...she may not want you to be her emotional cure. She has deep emotional issues from what you have explained, this will translate into your life, her energy may become your energy. This is not healthy. I would recommend strong boundaries. You can be compassionate, support her in a healthy way, yet in a relationship this may end in chaos...and make this worse. She can look for methods that can help her PTSD, but she is the one that will need to want to change. Now...as for sillybearhappyhoneyeater's teacher statement of "being normal and acting according to normal social rules is the best way to live a happy life.". Who's normal? What is a perfect definition of Normal? Never have I met someone who is "Normal". I have met Conformists, I have met people who heavily distract themselves from being emotionally aware by watching lots of TV, or heavy drinking, or over-eating, watching lots of sports, over-socializing (having to go out constantly from fear of being alone), those infactuated with fashion, heavy gossipers, heavy shoppers or those who over-work. I have never met someone who is "Normal". What are Normal Social Rules? People who are perfectly emotionally balanced? Never met them. No idea what that person looks like. We all wear masks. All of us. It depends on what you WANT to show. Or if you are even aware that you have a mask. If we tore our masks away we would see people with no boundaries, No emotional regulating. We all wear masks in some fashion or another.

Well...Ill talk to Teacher Ken and ask hinm for some direct links and or information that can be placed here. For now I'll post this. http://www.qigonghealing.com/qigong/research.html

Yes. It Has including Chi Kung. The new England Journal of Medicine has SPECIFIC results showing its efficiacy (Dont go to wiki...they REFUSE to print them...) Let me find some peer reviewed papers and post them for you guys.

I am Biased as well...and I try not to be fundalmentalistic about my views. I am challenged with Fibromyalgia, chronic myofacial syndrome and several other elements I need to let go of. Western Medicine had been more of a hinderance. Ironically I went to a pain specialist who reviewed my life style and afterwards asked if he could send his patients to me. I have been teaching others with Chronic Pain now for 5 years from his clinic and specializing in helping them.

Ken Cohen, who is a Taoist initiate and Qigong teacher has done considerable research into the quantification of Eastern medicine. He is an excellent resource to look into concerning the issues between Eastern and Western Medicine. In the book "Encounters with Qi" A Harvard Medical Doctor David Eisenberg, M.D, had written his personal research into Asian Medicine and it is a fascinating Read. This is an excerpt I had written on a report of that book. Until both Western and Eastern medicine can find a common dialogue, a marriage of the two may not take place for years if not decades to come. Scepticism runs rampant in the general circles of Western doctors and scientists. Even with multiple results showing the positive use and application of Chi Kung, there is still a significant amount of resistance to its efficacy. Equally in Eastern Medicine, there is a dismissive attitude towards the benefits of Western medicine’s investigative means as well as its procedures. Agenda driven medicine in either hemisphere will never benefit those in most need: the patient. Arrogance will prevent the deepest exploration of the human healing condition, including emotional, physical or spiritual therapeutics. The responsibility of our health and the health of our families lay in our hands alone. It is up to the individual to truly become free from institutions that do not have our best interests at heart.

The water dragon and fire Tiger as taught by Gao Lao Shir (Sifu Ken Cohen) a seated meditation where you imagine a sea dragon coming from the kua up the spine and is gently flying above the Bai Huai . then a tiger made of flame emerges from the heart into and up the spine where it joins the dragon. together they form a sphere of pearl white which rains join white energy over (and inside) your body. He covers this in his "Qigong essentials" CD.

Yes absolutely, the physical is an illusion, yet it is a persistent one. Allow me to offer an excuse however. At this time, I find qigong very helpful (Though it is mechanism that is also anchoring me to a belief that must be released). But the biggest hurdle is...I sure love doing it. I absolutely LOVE training. So...I believe I can let the mind learn that my body is just a tool or even further than that simply an illusion, yet...I do feel that to break down the illusion we take steps that progress us towards that. I have worked with healers who say "You can be healed right now...you just need to understand that you can! " I must offer that is the same as breaking the illusion down to the point of complete disassociation with all things of a physical nature. This is a very difficult stage. Or...I find it to be. I guess what I am saying is I would like others to be patient with me as I am trying to break through those beliefs and take myself to a new state of consciousness.

wonderful post

I myself have many limiting beliefs. I have an illness that is challenging to overcome, yet being a teacher of qigong and kung fu I feel I should have eliminated it long ago. Furthermore a social stigma has come with it. From interactions with others I have taken their fundamentalist views to heart. I feel a great urge to simply walk away from teaching (Though it really is a great joy in my life) since I do not measure up to what a "true master" would be. Am I a Master? No, not really. A Master or a Sage would not run the opinions of other through their head regularly. I have said this before, I have learned much, yet acquired little wisdom. That being said I must also add, I have gained much knowledge of how NOT to treat others through the actions or words of others. Can I let these limiting beliefs go? I believe so, in time. The opinions of others have nothing to do with me...and visa versa.

I like your hat? *homer shrug*

This does have some elements of NLP. NLP is an excellent resource. I would recommend it to everyone.

I would like to share my experiences to this topic, if I may. I teach accordingly to the student...However...I do find that for many that directness is very successful. I do not subscribe to absolutism though. I find it limits experience. eg. a student can neither feel or visualize, sometimes kinesthetic is required. Blowing warm air into the palms, rubbing the palms or a tai chi ball or ruler. Looking at the ends of the hands at first (not a direct gaze) can help with the flow of intent. Anyways. I just feel if things are Do or Do not, it is not very Taoist. It seems fundamentalist. But that is just my limited view.

OMG I am in Love with the Paradoxes of this entire discussion! I have ...nothing to add...I'm still spinning from some of the great questions you have all provided.

How we react to others, including our assessment or judgments of them are a reflection of our own strengths or insecurities. It has very little to do with them. Being transparent is not easy. We are all taught to wear masks of some sort. This permeates our society. To remove our masks we must first become aware of its presence in the first place. This is why we are all here...to become truly aware of ourselves and to let these masks go.

I am very fascinated with this discussion. I must honestly say it is a personal struggle for me. I find a great topic which I wish to add my experiences, yet by putting my two cents in I feel I am being egotistical. I mostly just keep to myself these days as I do not like to get involved with internet debates. Trying to find a balance has been a interesting journey. Thank you for discussing this. It has been very enlightening.

I want to train, teach and heal myself and others. I will most likely no longer post myself. I have really nothing to say beyond that anymore, except this. Enjoy and love your training, be happy. I'll keep doing the best I can as well.

Each person must determine that answer for themselves as with anything in life. It should be reached with gentleness, understanding and compassion. We should not judge how much or how little in one another. Just feel joy for the act and stillness in its application. If someone performs one meditation for even thirty seconds I will be happy for their effort.