goldenfox

Yeah, it does recur. Then again it also gets altered over time depending upon various factors; how the person reacts to the situation and so on. Each time we learn a lesson that also gets stored as an impression which goes towards having a greater wisdom to act from the next time around. So i think, although the recurring dynamic is always there, it is also an eternal flux due to the impact of actions upon consciousness and vice versa.

Not fixated at all buddy. Thats the great thing about not being preoccupied with it. There is such a thing as 'healthy' regulation of sex force. It is a part of the natural order of things. Granted, for cultivation it is important to gain strength and discipline over it and over nature as a whole eventually. But this is done step by step and is a gradual thing. The way you talk about it shows you are approaching it with a lot of negativity and a chip on the shoulder. You likely have unresolved issues sexually and for you it will not be easy to conquer lust at all at this point. Sexual desire, like all other desires, has a normal and an abnormal or diseased state, the latter resulting only from the foreign matter accumulated by unnatural living.. In the sexual desire everyone has an accurate thermometer to indicate the condition of his health. This desire is forced from its normal state by the irritation of nerves that results from the pressure of foreign matter accumulated in the system, which pressure is exerted on the sexual apparatus and is at first manifested by an increased sexual desire followed by a gradual decrease of potency. This sexual desire in its normal state makes man quite free from all disturbing lusts, and operates on the organism (awaking a wish for appeasement) only infrequently. Here again experiment shows that this desire, like all other desires, is always normal in individuals who lead a natural life as mentioned. The root of the tree of life. The sexual organ - the junction of important nerve extremities, particularly of the sympathetic and spinal nerves (the principal nerves of the abdomen) which, through their connection with the brain, are capable of enlivening the whole system - is in a sense the root of the tree of life. Man well instructed in the proper use of sex can keep his body and mind in proper health and can live a pleasant life throughout. The practical principles of sexual health are not taught because the public regards the subject as unclean and indecent. Thus blinded mankind presumes to clothe Nature in a veil because she seems to them impure, forgetting that she is always clean and that everything impure and improper lies in man's ideas, and not in Nature herself. It is clear therefore that man, not knowing the truth about the dangers of misuse of the sexual power, and being compelled to wrong practices by the nervous irritation resulting from unnatural living, suffers troublesome diseases in life and ultimately becomes a victim of premature death. - Swami Sri Yukteswar, The Holy Science

It was written by Yogananda. Pretty sure from his Gita commentary if i remember correctly. Like it or not, lust IS part of nature, and it has you by the balls, however much you wanna squirm and deny to the contrary. And no amount of your pretending to be beyond it will work until you actually get to that point in your practice when it drops away on its own. The way to conquer lust is to be disciplined yes, but also patient, determined and not give up after repeated failure. You must go forward without guilt. And you will fail with lust many times before you come even close to renouncing it, believe me. Especially with the attitude you have about it. To be truly beyond it is to be free of the mental roots of lust, not just the physical. This only comes after a lot of spiritual efforts and successes.

Well they do achieve it, they just dont merge completely into it straight away in order to keep playing a part in the drama. If you once see eternity you know it is something that is never given up; it is your true nature. Liberated beings live in two worlds. They are aware of their eternal state, even while acting in this world. This is what is called in yoga Nirvikalpa samadhi, the enlightenment without bodily fixation where the person can act through the body. There is also what they call Pralaya and Mahapralaya, which means dissolution or dissolving. Yogananda once said something interesting. He said that people around him think he is this person in this body just living life the same as them, but in fact he said he is all the time creating pralayas and mahapralayas, dissolving himself in the Infinite and then acting again through the body. It is a different kind of life once you get to that point. The difference is that giving up the body makes it easier for the master to help others on the subtle planes, but is not physically present to guide them. Most people do not develop their subtle senses and intuition with which to perceive the subtle guidance. They need the master in the flesh to guide them to a certain point. Same with the ignorant masses of humanity. For an enlightened being to make any impression in the world for the benefit of mankind, they have to teach for the amount of time they remain in the body after finding their enlightenment. The fact that some choose to return again and again to teach and help others find freedom is evidence of the compassionate nature of God or Buddha-nature or whatever you want to call It.

It is not having sympathy for the animal nature, but for the divine nature of man. Seeing the infinite being whose true nature is bliss suffering in the mire of sense-slavery and ignorance is the motive for compassionately helping them. Who but the liberated being has the ability to help? Only the awakened can lead the blind.

You already are doing it to a degree. Preoccupation with lust, and the fear of it, is the reason why you are so interesting in rubbing the noses of others in it.

Yes it does. I can tell you from experience that once your third eye wakes up, the invisible barrier between you and the world dissolves. Like an insulated wire cant shock you when you touch it, remove the insulation and you will get the shock. In the same way the insulation gets removed, and all the subtle impressions in your conscious and unconscious come alive. The mechanism by which this happens is the mind. When you see for real in every moment how your thoughts and feelings are creating your reality, or in other words how the world is responding to you based on what you are projecting from within, and not really based on what you do or say (but rather what youre thinking and feeling), then you actually understand what karma really is and not before then. It is just an intellectual concept until then. For me the karma clearing can get so intense sometimes that i just want to run away from it all. It can seem like the ultimate curse rather than a blessing. Yet the fact is the oneness actually reveals the underlying reason why one needs to behave according to spiritual law, so in that respect it is ultimately for your own good. There is physical karma in the form of effects that come to you seemingly by their own power, events that happen to you in daily life that appear imposed on you from outside. Then there is astral and causal karma in the form of your perceptions, impressions and basically all the vrittis or currents in your chitta.

The border guard didnt take the prince's money, but the prince thought he did and punished him for it. That meant the border guard had to demand money from the prince in the future life and persecute him unjustlly (thats why the prince in future life had to be taken to court, as a recompense for the unjust persecution he was responsible for from the earlier life, even though he didnt take money in that future life). Even though the border guard never took the princes money, he was embroiled karmically in the affair due to the actions of the prince. The thief on horseback had to be involved in the future life too because hes the one who actually took the money, thereby causing the border guard to be unjustly accused and punished. The reason the roles were reversed between the prince and border guard, in terms of who accused who unjustly and punished them for it, is because that karma was between those two souls. One perceived and acted unjustly to the other so the roles had to be reversed for that karma to be payed back. Whereas, the thief on horseback, hes the one who actually got the money both times because he was a fringe player in the whole thing. The first time he found the money by accident, and chose to do a wicked thing by not asking the border guard if it were his or if he had seen who dropped it (thereby getting it crookedly), so he set himself up to receive payment from the prince in the future life again and to receive it crookedly then too. I think the overall message in the story is that we dont always see the hidden causes behind events, and thats how karma gets the better of us. The prince and the border guard had no clue their respective travails were caused by the calumny of the horseman, but it didnt prevent them from having to reverse karmic roles in a future life. And the horseman, being the true culprit and making off with the princes gold, was destined to receive the same again from the prince in future life because that was his karma with the prince. He also had to be the agent of the border guards injustice in both lives, because that was his karma with the border guard. The prince had to be an agent of injustice for the border guard as well in both lives, but the roles with the horseman were reversed because, in the first vision the horseman was the initial cause of the injustice by crookedness, whereas in the second vision it was the prince. In both cases the border guard was the victim of injustice, in that the first time he was flogged unjustly by the prince, and the second time in that he was swindled out of justice by the crookedness of the prince, even though the second time around it was the border guards turn to accuse the prince unjustly. In both cases the horseman got the princes money by crookedness, even though the second time around the crookedness was initiated by the prince. In both cases the prince acted unjustly as well as lost his money, albeit the second time he acted unjustly and lost his money because of that, whereas the first time he acted unjustly because he lost his money. Picture a sphere of oneness with a nucleus. All souls have dealings with each other through that nucleus and that nucleus gives to each one the results of actions they perform based on the way they perceive events. To put it more clearly, in both lifetimes, all the protagonists receive the same result even though their respective roles with each other are reversed.

Interesting. Check this out as well. Its a Kabbalistic take on karma and how it relates to reincarnation. If you can get it, you get the complexity yet simplicity of it at the same time: REINCARNATION This weeks Torah portion Mishpatim begins, "And these are the laws." Just as the preceding words (the Ten Commandments) were received from Sinai, these following laws were also received from Sinai. "These are the laws" means “these are the orders (the foundations) of Gilgulim (reincarnation).” Zohar Parshas Mishpatim And then there was the time that the saintly Rabbi Dov Ber (successor to the Baal Shem Tov and later known as the Mezritcher Maggid), asked his teacher and Rebbe, the Baal Shem Tov, "Rebbe, would you teach me the sod (spiritual foundations) of reincarnation?" The Baal Shem Tov took him to his study room and told him to close his eyes. Suddenly, in a dream-like vision, Rabbi Dov Ber saw a handsome prince and a friend approach a river for a picnic and a swim. The only other person there was a border guard on duty as the river separated two countries. After a pleasant afternoon of swimming, the Prince and his friend changed to their regular clothes and left. But, unbeknownst to the Prince, his wallet fell out of his pocket while he was changing from his bathing suit. Later that day, a man on horseback came riding by and noticed the wallet on the ground. When he picked it up and saw a large sum of money, he decided not to mention it to the border guard who was still there. When the Prince returned to his palace and realized that his wallet was missing, he thought back to the last time he remembered having it his possession. "That's it," he thought, "it was by the river. The only other person there, besides my friend, was that border guard. I'll take care of him!" So he took a few of his father's soldiers and arrested the border guard. Of course, the border guard denied seeing, much less taking, the wallet. But the Prince was a bit arrogant and didn't believe him. "Punish that thief," he ordered. The border guard received thirty lashes. When the dream vision was over and Rabbi Dov Ber opened his eyes, he exclaimed, "That just wasn't fair at all! Why,” he asked the Baal Shem Tov, "did the Prince lose his money? Also, why did the border guard get lashes when he didn't do anything? It's just not right!" "You asked me to teach you the sod (spiritual foundations) of reincarnation. Now close your eyes again," replied the Baal Shem Tov. Then, as before, Rabbi Dov Ber saw a dream- like vision. This time, he saw a first man approach a second man and say in an angry tone, "It's been a long time and I want you to pay me back the money I lent you." The second man answered, "Listen, I already told you, I never borrowed any money from you." The first man replied, "You're such a liar. How can you look me in the eyes and say 'I never borrowed any money from you'? You leave me with no option, I'm taking you to court before a judge, you miserable creature." Then in the dream vision, Rabbi Dov Ber saw the second man go to the judge and give him a sack of money as a bribe. The second man said to the judge, "Now you understand that no matter what proof that man brings, I didn't borrow any money from him." The judge opened up the sack of money and while he counted out the gold coins that spilled out, he answered, "You have nothing to worry about." Later, during the trial, the first man, the Plaintiff, brought written proof that the second man, the Defendant, had borrowed the money. But the judge wasn't convinced and ruled, "I find for the Defendant (the second man) and hold that the Plaintiff (the first man) didn't lend him any money. When the dream vision was over and Rabbi Dov Ber opened his eyes, he exclaimed, "That just wasn't fair at all. Why," he asked the Baal Shem Tov, "how could the second man get away with not paying his debt? It's just not right!" "My dear Reb Dov Ber," said the Baal Shem Tov, "this is the sod of reincarnation. The first man that lent the money and didn't get it back in the second dream vision was the the border guard in the first dream-like vision and so it really wasn't his money anyway. The second man that borrowed the money and refused to pay it back in the second dream- like vision was the prince and so it really was his money. And the crooked judge in the second dream- like vision was the man on the horse in the first dream -like vision and so he really did deserve the thirty lashes." And so it was. Freely adapted by Tzvi Meir Cohn (Howard Cohn, Patent Attorney) from a story heard directly from Rav Sholom Ber Chaikin.

Yup. And due to omniscience there is also the intuitive understanding of the karmic reason for the sufferings of others, and what manner or level of help is appropriate. Like with Christ, he taught the masses through moral laws and parables, because he knew their minds were mostly sunk in materialism (it was in the kali yuga after all), but to a chosen destined few he taught the inner methods of cultivation that allowed them to progress very fast in their evolution. Like Yogananda said, every Christ-like master helps the world both qualitatively (bringing a number to his own level) and quantitatively (uplifting mankind as a whole by his vibration and legacy). There is even a divine law, according to him, that one must be the agent of liberation of at least 6 souls before one can achieve final liberation ('siddha' or fully free, not just 'jivanmukta' or free of physical but not astral/causal embodiment).

Also, there must be a tremendous identification with others in that state, because to give up enjoying it oneself in eternity in order to first help others to attain it, that speaks volumes on the depth of sympathy and compassion the enlightened have for fellow beings. Like i says, im fairly certain in oneness with everything, there is innate compassion for 'others' (who are no longer perceived as separate) even while being above suffering in one's self. One can still feel the suffering of others, before leaving the body.

From what i have understood, one's ego is extinguished to the degree that it is seen to be illusory in the state of union, but coming down from that state to function in the body, a vestige of ego has to be maintained. Like with Sankara for instance, it was said he kept the ego of knowledge while still in the body, even though he saw it as unreal. With this 'ego' he continued to teach till the destined moment to drop the body. Even if his ego was that of knowledge and not say, of love/compassion (like Christ or Chaitanya for example), even then his activity was directed in the highest service to humanity and expression of compassion: that of helping others to see through illusion and seek the Real. Just that his manner of expression was wisdom/discrimination. So i think at that level no matter what kind of trace of ego or personality is brought back for the remaining length of time of the body, it is all of a divine or blessed nature, and hence naturally compassionate. It is said of the Buddha that he offered his own life for that of a goat about to be sacrificed. I think at that level, because one sees the essential Truth of things, and that the body is literally meaningless before the glory of that state, one can be wholeheartedly compassionate, while at the same time utterly detached. Hard thing to imagine in an egoic state. But just imagine subjectively for a moment, being in possession of an eternal treasure of freedom in peace and happiness beyond measure. Wouldnt you be simultaneously beyond fear of hurt or even death, while feeling the greatest pity for those who you saw grovelling about in the mud of maya, not knowing that they had the same treasure available to them within? I think such a state is both the fulfilment of compassion as well as the fulfilment of detachment/renunciation. Its a paradox but only from the viewpoint of the mind, not the heart.

Yeah, probably couldve used a better word; again.. language is so easily a barrier. Thing is even the earliest glimpses of samadhi are extraordinary compared to the normal mental functions and mundane awareness. I would imagine something like Nirvana/Kaivalya in the cosmic conscious state as pretty far removed from body-identified, egoistic perception. But agreed, that once in that state it would feel only natural since it is the eternal, primordial state of consciousness. I remember something Vivekananda wrote, who was a realized Vedantist mind you, that in the latter stages of his life, he was being withdrawn more and more into Nirvana, and that it was a state both strange and wonderful.

As you can see you are already fixated on lust even while believing yourself to be above it. But you are systematically addressing any and all threads where it is 'rearing its ugly head'. This is precisely the predicament of the one who thinks they can conquer lust so quickly and completely from the outset. You will only hopelessly dig for yourself a deeper hole by this. Its good to be cautious and respectful of it, and hence disciplined, but being brutal on yourself will only develop a complex.

I think only realized Buddhists or Vedantins are qualified to address this issue. Unless there is actual realization, they are both still just mental constructs of reality being deciphered by the intellect of the respective practitioners. Having said that it is my belief that what Buddha meant by Nirvana is the same as the Kaivalya of Vedanta, only the descriptions can appear different because one is still having to use language and mental conceptions to communicate that which cannot be clearly communicated. It is like the typical Buddhist statement that the Buddha taught there is no God and no such thing as self. In actually fact, the ultimate Truth cannot be said to be personal or impersonal, or a self or no self, because personal (deity) versus impersonal (void) or self versus no self are only states of opposition able to be conceive by mind. The same is the difference that only seemingly appears when comparing Nirvana to Kaivalya. Nirvana describing extinguishment and Kaivalya describing absolute aloneness, are still using words and concepts in the attempt to convey something beyond communication. About the best one can hope for in taking the help of either concept to get a glimpse, however remote, of the fundamental Truth, is in this very acceptance of the resolving of these two seemingly different conceptions. You then realize what is being attempted at communicating is so utterly beyond mental framework and conception as to be wholly alien and transcendent to it.

I AM is inherent in the process of breathing itself. The seed sound of the breath is Ham-Sa or Hong-Sau ('I am - He'). Not in the verbal or even mentally superimposed sense but in the actual internal sound of it. The dual nature of the breath - inbreath and outbreath - is reflective of the state of non-duality becoming manifest as duality. The pure being in which even the I does not spring up, becomes the 'I' and the 'He' or 'That' (ie; 'self' and 'other' or 'the rest', like two sides of the same coin), which is a result of the process of knower-knowing-known springing up when the ego is present. I dont know to what extent Yogani has clearly had insight into dharana, dhyana, samadhi (taken together which comprise samyama), but traditionally dharana is considered as concentration or rather the attempt to get into the unbroken flow of fixity of attention which when accomplished is then technically termed dhyana, or meditation. When such effortless flow of attention becomes object-less (devoid of an object of perception), that is samadhi. Process of knower-knowing-known gets resolved in absolute absorption. Samayama is simply the process of dharana, dhyana and samadhi occuring as a single progression. Whatever is the object of attention on which samyama is performed, the true significance or meaning of it is intuited directly through being united with the inner meaning of the object by samadhi. This is for example how the ancient rishis deciphered the heavens and formulated astrology. By performing samyama on the stars and planets, their subtle natural movements and astral qualities were perceived within the omnipresence of the consciousness perfected in samadhi (and hence in samayama).

Very glad to have found this forum!

Id highly recommend anything at the Online Library of Yoganiketan: www.yoganiketan.net Especially the Gita commentaries and anything by Lahiri Mahasaya. But really all of it is good, just a question of how much you can absorb because it tends to cover Vedanta from an experiential perspective. Not just philosophy but how it actually relates to practice of Yoga and the states revealed from that.

The enlightened being does not see a difference between his self and the self of others; the ego is extinguished. Therefore it does not occur to him not to assist or try to alleviate the suffering of others. Compassion is an effortless quality of his nature because he cannot help but feel sympathy at the plight of others.