et-thoughts

OK those that accept the invitation and challenge convinced that they will fly across the rift (which causes them to fly across the rift)... may want to comment... self-fulfilling prophecies can be a blessing :-)... those that become light as a feather can walk upwards any slippery slope without needing to avoid it nor change it at all... even if the foundations vanish some can hover in place as the complete transformation took place way before reaching the abyss ... some tread lightly letting go of what drags them down... I believe you actually understand quite well what I mean... Given the change in responses taking place and the interchanges topics it seems to me that this thread is winding down... unless someone cares to push it a bit...

Stosh, a virtue arises from nurturing some stuff and dismiss certain stuff.. the act and energy has potential to do this or that what it ultimately does depends on ... the interactions, arrangements and inter-reactions involved will continue latter ... lucky the dog is doing its take me out NOW PLEASE dance... ok I am back... "if the positions were reversed..." well lets take a look... the sage, the teacher, the master... the lovers... have realized long ago that they teach and learn at the same time so the student is both the student and the teacher... 'singularities' like love, caring, work... and when the position be reversed they still work... be that one gives or receives love... love is cultivated, sustained, desired, spread and 'other' stuff... In the real world one must act ... the question isn't to be or not to be; its how to be! When one chooses to do nothing it may be vicious, virtuous, and a bunch of other stuff... they key resides in nurturing some stuff and dismiss certain stuff... choose which possibilities will remain as possibilities and which will grow into realities... now observe what happens when taken to the absolute ... death dies and life lives!

A slight variation involving ... Stosh, on 22 August 2012 - 06:06 AM, said: Without that idea or a similar one, you are left with the 'doing nothing' credoYou NEED that ...("X")... concept. With the 'Ideal' being, the it becomes a composite of singular individual and arrangements realities to move with in and through in a dance that both molds arranges and transforms everything...

One needs to nurture some stuff and dismiss certain stuff...

' the act of none' may mean...'the act' according to 'the act'! following is the explanation that lead to the above claim... Today I had an interchange that centered on 'what be' which may or may not correspond to what I think to be, what you think to be, what they think to be... in a way what be be what be regardless of what someone may think... in other words : what be according to what be ... Note that "what be" according to what be... be independent of someone... and this in essence would be according to none ...

Teaching without words involves demonstrating through one's example rather than just talking about it... Also note the focus on softness manipulating the hardness ... that is dancing along and moving and directing energy flows rather than fighting...

Can you elaborate on the assumption you perceived?

Oh I do don't TRY to take away their security blanket or the magic carpet they stand upon .. I just point out that it be an imaginary thing that they hold on to... :-) poof its gone! and there is no more a solid foundation to stand upon or a certain thing to hold on... time to learn to stand on their own, walk on air... fly fly fly... :-) ! Of course when I 'invite' them to walk across the precipice, hover cross the abyss, most will strongly protest and refuse... convinced they will fall into the rift (which causes them to fall into the rift)... self-fulfilling prophecies can be a blessing or a curse... and become quite slippery slope that can only be avoided through a complete transformation... I believe you actually understand quite well what I mean...

This thread focus on exploring and determining What does the sage seeks to convey: a dualistic natural manner(Wu Wei) a singularitynatural manner(Wu Wei) a bit more than the alternatives put forth... we seem to be going round and round the central point... personally I stipulate that there is singular reality and that we should seek... while 'avoiding' or transcending dualistic ways. The sage acts naturally (and does what need be done which may involve doing and not doing). One example of transcending dualistic ways involves realizing that the pessimist and the optimists are both delusional and it is the realists that gets to see the full cup... Hope this helps clarify the issue here...

Marblehead I consider that it would be a waste of my time to seek and offend someone... When I said that my statements should not be taken as a personal attack I wanted to focus on the issue at hand not the individuals involved... Why would it be a bit hard to tell the deluded that they are deluded... those who believe what is false and claim that it is true because they believe it need a reality check... :-) Yes your truth are your truth, they may or may not be the truths for others and they will be true or false depending on two things 1- what you hold to believe to be and 2- what happened to be... the realist in me appeals to the realist in you :-)

Stosh, Let me know if you want us to start a new thread... regarding honesty as a virtue... In regards to making an error and intentionally making false statements ... ,it is only rational to make a distinction about it... An error would involve unintentionally mistakes... errors are pointed out and corrected... intentionally maintaining that some error is not an error involves telling lies... to other or to oneself ... (or both) you are quite right about ' not responding, in order to avoid admission to being wrong' ' it can be just as non-virtuous as the active lie. It is just sneakier'... Considering that making a claim involves intent... and that a claim is true or false depending on what happens to be its only rational to realize that not correcting a false claim and maintaining it involves an individuals intent to claim what is false (rather that what is true). The point here as I see it centers on the notion of what constitutes a lie... to me its a false statement I realize that for some its an intentional false statement... I wonder how someone can make statements without intending to make statements... BTW just for clarity sake... and to level the field... if a being tells a single lie in its existence that being is a liar once and for all... yea just about everyone is a liar by this definition... so lets not get all worked up about it... especially when by the same token the beings attain once and for all other wonderful characteristic whenever they do something once... besides when someone claims "I tell the truth" its a bit irrelevant what they been before that moment or what they may become in the next whats relevant is that they act congruent with the statement made... I mentioned wo wei because as I understand it that concept involves acting by doing or not doing according to what be appropriate to do... I know that no response is still a response...

When someone gives false testimony, while actually believe they are saying the truth hardly changes the fact that they are making false claims, and thus lying... some hold that lying requires that one intentionally make false statement rather than just require somebody to make false statements... I also have been thinking to mention that what I state should not be taken as a personal attack... Some find being questioned offensive, some find the truth being exposed offensive, some find it insulting that someone dare question and challenge what they state, hold, believe, feel, experience... the sage sees the question as a question nothing more nothing less... sometimes worth responding some answer and sometimes responding with no answer... wo wei...

Stosh, Assuming stuff is a bit wo wei... sometimes its useful and sometimes its something else... Personally I have a hard time figuring out if someone is telling the truth or telling lies ... so I just sort of keep a lets see attitude about the matter... Sorry that you are mildly offended ... I do not recall what you refer to by "recently you gave me a wierd reaction about not telling you any 'truths'." you might have been directing that comment to marblehead... not sure just wanted to make sure... and you are always welcome to jump in and enrich these interchanges...

I have the intuition that it aint the garments that interests you :-) ...

That you fail to see the air fills the room and thus consider the air full room empty does not change the fact that the room is completely full... yes physical emptiness differs from mental emptiness still when the mind thinks of nothing it still thinks of that something... what the eye sees, what the mind thinks, and what the heart feels and the spirit knows intertwine as a singular physical-mental-emotional-spiritual experience...

The realists would realize that there are no empty cups nor empty rooms... when the realist empties the glass of water the realist realizes the glass if full of air... the delusional would deny this evident fact... and be part of the optimists and pessimists encompassing group... Yes one can refill either without limits by taking contents out while placing new ones in... the room is always full! edited to add ... the question is full of what?

When the thought passes away some experience a greater understanding peace joy and all sort of things... cling to that which is transient... and relieving it through recalling and/or pre-living it through anticipation ... as well as fully experiencing it in the moment, the eternal moment.... oh and we could replace the thought with the being or the experience and realize that when someone passes away or when an experience passes some experience a greater understanding peace joy and all sort of things... of course we should be mindful what it is that we cultivate and keep alive within ourselves...

I see that attaching and identifying with a thought can bring about all sort of things... like joy peace understanding... and quite a bit more...does one ever really die... NO!

Thats a great encompassing label for the duality involving the pessimist and the optimist! Maybe the realist be the label for those who always hold a full glass ... for the realists sees the glass with some level of water and sees the rest is filled to the brim with air ...

"Well, like I said, I had to learn that the hard way". Indeed many do choose to learn the hard way, instead of learning another way... and some even insists that that be the way to learn it, it be the only way to learn it... until they lear the better ways... I just realized that I thought you said something when you didn't say it... I somehow perceived you implied far better to place ones expectations on what is... and now see that was my perception playing a story... still what I responded is applicable... BTW the notion of the optimists brought to mind the notion of a full glass--- which I would say transcends the half-empty half-full dualistic schema based on a singularity of halfs ... so we have the pessimist, with a half-empty glass, the optimist, with a half-full glass, and then we have the one who always holds a full glass ... I wonder what label to use for this last one...

I like that... you be ahead in the queue ... everyone wants to be ahead in the queue ... and I also like the notion that death is the final action in this life...

I like that... you be ahead in the queue ... everyone wants to be ahead in the queue ... and I also like the notion that death is the final action in this life...

"oooooOOOOooooOooOooooOoOoOO" I get it... the way I look at it, is that one dies as one lives... live to bring more love, joy, and compassion into the world and thereafter .-)

Heck why place expectation on what is being what is, when we know that in the next moment everything could change... One thing I learned on the way is to ask the unchanging all-knowing Tao to ensure the way and that I get and do what needs doing. Far better to stick with what can ensure I manage to do what is impossible for me to do (because it can do anything even make what is impossible for me to do be possible for me to do). Besides 'surprises' are much more fun and enjoyable when one know it will be wonderful, whatever it happens to be... soon enough each discovers what the surprise be... and then it keeps getting better and better with infinite more divine surprised... when lucky the shitsu dog sleeps it make a sound 'whop whop whop' its hilarious ...