et-thoughts

Sure can and have... here is the link http://thetaobums.com/topic/24538-a-dualistic-singularity-and-the-natural-mannerwu-wei/ Note that the subject words arrangement used sort of plays a bit with the core ideas... the natural manner and singularity dualistic My current appreciation seeks an integrative consolidation that shifts from a fuzzy dualistic judgmental comparative appreciation towards clearer distinctions akin to the shift done when moving from warm-cold distinctions towards a temperature scale. will post this on the other thread to get the interchange going there...

Indeed... perhaps now would be as good a moment as any other now! be it in this thread or a new one... just let me know the time-space for the talking and wonderment... Oh (Wu Wei) seemed to be defined as benevolent in one of the lines posted...

Stosh, From what you wrote i do perceive you focus on the core of the point I sought to convey... and focus on... I wonder if the sage sought to convey a dualistic natural manner(Wu Wei)? Maybe the sage sought to convey a singularity natural manner(Wu Wei) to those with dualistic perceptions. in Chapeter two "12.Always the same. 13.Sage handles matters in a natural manner(Wu Wei)" Note the absence of the construe inverse... say .- Sage handles matters in an unnatural manner(Wu Wei)... I realize that a very basic Tao principle involves the notions of 'Wu Wei' and that 'Yin and Yang' is also a fundamental one. I also am aware that the constitution of certain concepts come to be together with each other... say the arch, arrow and archer. Of course there are other underlying dynamics going on. I am curious and set on an adventurer that has brought me here and now. My singular perception is a bit quirky, on the one hand I am NOT in line with universal one-ness of everything for I am in line with individual singularities; while on the other hand I am sort of in line with the notion considering that our individual uniqueness makes us equal. Imagine a ladder with infinite steps and each being at one point in the latter, now each step is uniquely different from the other (there is a particular level for each); and each level is equal to the others (there are infinite levels above and below). I realize that the blanket negation of my position, stems from choosing to embrace the negative... well it could also be dew to a defense mechanisms to keep from considering a position that changes what one holds to be (because what I state negates the negative well what I state cultivates the positive by focusing on the positive). One may or may not search to find Tao and still one finds Tao. I am on a quest as you are on a quest I would prefer each to be enriched from every encounter... The notion that 'from the one there becomes two' can lead to infinite possibilities many positive ones... To sum up what I was pointing out I wonder if the sage sought to convey a dualistic natural manner(Wu Wei) maybe the sage sought to convey a singularity natural manner(Wu Wei)...

.

.

Stosh, If we look at the first lines in the second posts on this thread from an abstract position: First we observe construes in the form of 'what be' be 'what be' (beauty as beauty, kindness as kindness) followed by some opposite "what isn't". Further down the dualistic approach becomes quite evident to me. Then it talks about the how the sage handles matter in a natural manner and proceeds to juxtapose opposites in a singular integration. The point I wanted to raise focuses precisely on the notion of how humans tend towards that dualistic position rather than a singular encompassing understanding that transcends the limitations. The fact one construes niceness, justice and beauty etc hardly implies the construes of the opposing notions. That is done by those who seek to cultivate such stuff for whatever reason...

.

duplicate post sorry...

.

Humble, Sometimes I think of thoughts as memes... itsy bits 'creatures' that live from and seek my attention... and the more one seeks not to think of an apple the more one thinks the unthinkable... just remember that its much easier to focus on what one wants... think of an elephant... chances are you thought of an elephant (and did not think of an apple). Point being recognize what be going on, and move on to the focus of what you want to be going on... in a sort of analogous way... the notion of not judging, (not choosing) is a form of judging (choosing) ... so instead of seeking a paradoxical contradiction that rejects what is done recognize what is going on and focus on doing it effectively; the question isn't to be or not to be, it be how to be... its not about judging or not judging, its about how each judges...

I was wondering how the view counter actually tallies the counter? Just curious... the counter would tell different stories depending on the way it does stuff. say the same individual views the same point over and over vs a count of different individual views. with cookies its possible to count once even guests and anonymous users. as I said just curious

.

Dao Jones... maybe the lesson involved multiple insights related to each and them all :-) including us - learn to assert oneself - learn to to restrain oneself - seed followup interactions - and more :-) The underlying core issue I perceive centers on the abilities to deal with such situations ... which incidentally can be observed taking place at different scales including the global... the key resides in effective ways to interject and catalyze the better turn of events...

Dao Jones... maybe the lesson involved multiple insights related to each and them all :-) including us - learn to assert oneself - learn to to restrain oneself - seed followup interactions - and more :-) The underlying core issue I perceive centers on the abilities to deal with such situations ... which incidentally can be observed taking place at different scales including the global... the key resides in effective ways to interject and catalyze the better turn of events...

.

the most brilliant captains... can thread the winds and seas without getting caught in the hardest of storms... while using the strong winds and waves to their advantage...please note the paradoxical incongruence when the measure of a captain's brilliant capabilities involves observing them into the hardest of storms ... its akin to the paradoxical incongruence that love is measured by how much one willingly suffers! Those who love realize that the measure of love involves only love and what one does for love... the caring, kind, joyful acts one gives to others... cheers

Ming, My two cents on this ... For quite some time I wondered and pondered about the question "How do you get a bully not to be a bully without bulling them"? In a way its sort of what you be asking. How does one deal with violence? How does one get the violent not to be violent without violence? I basically found two answers though only one responds the question while remaining put. The common response would be to walk away - avoid the confrontation "run from the violence" The response that I prefer is to dance jujitsu stile (I meant to write style, though the definition of stile seems quite appropriate fit) 'To dance' one has to direct energy flows in the most effective and enriching ways. Move with the other so that 'a slap' becomes 'a caress'. I imagine that you can envision how someone with agility can react in such a way as to ensure that the intended blow never becomes such and just graces one and becomes a caress that gives the energy to gracefully move with the other dancing around until the other gets to vent out their energies within a dance rather than a fight. I just made a new connection that I had not seen before. Moving out of the way while remaining standing where one be is quite possible. I would also say that the stories told influence what takes place. When a stupid persons tells me I am stupid I know they are projecting unto me their condition. When someone who is wrong tells me I am wrong, when I am right, I know that they are wrong and have just prove it once again. If they told me I was right I would wonder wether it be because I am wrong or because they recognized the truth :-) would like to balance and bias this post towards positive words ... - playful, to be playful with play - How does one cultivate peace and kindness? - How do the peaceful instill peace wherever they be? - Infinite possibilities, some remain as just that possibilities... - recognize the situation transform it by moving and dancing - run to the encounter, embrace the situation, and dance! - "Stile" - steps that allows 'people' but not 'animals' to climb over a fence or wall and find peace and protection - When a being tells me I am this or that I know they are projecting unto me their condition and I accept the invitation to play or dance a song... will it it be their way or my way or the better way whichever happens that to be. When someone who is this or that tells me something, I know what they want to cultivate and when they act I realize whether they do as they claim... Whatever they told me, I would wonder wether it be because they recognized the truth and want to share it, because they know the truth and what to hide it :-), because thats the story they know... and many other possibilities... BTW the best way to win a fight involves winning before it even becomes that... while managing to create respect! ok now will see what others have said and may complement this... One way is to

.

The game of being has a 'time-out' box where beings enter not to be... the dreamless dream. Not-being involves accepting 'what is not' as being and holding "what is" as not being. 'Dualistic' notions of not-being reflect being within the dream. At all time Beings being none-beings remain within the not-being being unaware of being until the moment that what is impossible becomes possible and the impassable passage be passed. At any time a being can choose to wake up from the dreamless dream though thats impossible for a none-being to accomplish, for those who think they can't do it will not do it even if they could do it. For those who know, I have little to add for those who do NOT know I will say: - the man who refuses to see, and wishes not to see, sees without seeing where as the blind man, sees without seeing Some see 'seeing without seeing' as the key to see and to not see some know the elephant as the elephant! - "A ray of light suffices to enlighten and disintegrate darkness". Lies just disintegrate in the presence of the truth... and those who know and recognize the truth can experience all the possibilities and realities with a single thought (feeling understanding act) though they do not have to experience it all to know it all. I would like each and everyone to know the truth and be enlighten... and keep on watering the plants and chopping wood... What would you like be? Can a finite temporary experience include it all while also transcending the finite temporary experience? The enlightened know from experience the singular valid answer... believers know the stories told until they experience a singular transcendental enlightenment instant ... of course there are all sort of storytellers with all sort of captivating lines and all sort of motives... which do you seek to cultivate and contemplate.

There are all sort of seeds within and which ones one chooses to cultivate and feed determine what will grow... and what will remain as a possibility. Infinite causes and conditions in the moment become manifested in a singular way. Choose wisely

Hurray! Like the upgrade thus far... SO you posted that it took a bit longer than expected ... when in fact it took what it took and nothing more nor nothing less... I used to say "Expect the best and be prepared for the rest"... now days I sort of state "be it a dream be if for real always choose the better way"... this upgrade seems to be along the ways of the better ways... thank you for all your efforts

For those who DO know I have little to add for those who DO NOT know I will say: the man who refuses to see, and wishes not to see, sees far less than the blind one who knows the elephant as the elephant! deci belle, From what you did I wonder if my independent comments perturbed you so much that you just had to do what you did ? I know how somethings just disintegrate in the presence of others things and resort to avoiding such exposures , for example: "A ray of light suffices to enlighten and disintegrate darkness". I would like each and everyone to know the truth and be enlighten and keep on watering the plants and chopping wood... I would had preferred that your ed note explained better the fact you choose to remove your posts because you could not stand mine. Below I have included a link to the original thread for those who want to see my comments. Be at peace this will be my only response in this thread to your post UNLESS some response calls for additional comments on my part. I wished that you could share the experience of a serene, free, independent, untrammeled, dialogue rather than what you are feeling... love it or hate it thats up to you... http://thetaobums.co...24407-end-game/

From the transcendental place of infinite possibilities and realities, its is quite evident to me, that some unenlightened do not believe the enlightened have attained enlightenment nor will the unenlightened give their tacit accord of the truth that all enlighten recognize. Hope can and does exists within time-space bounds and outside of limiting constraints just as truth, peace, love, understanding, enlightenment and many many more 'stuff'. Some realize that some possibilities will remain as possibilities forevermore just as some realities will always be realities. Only if you know the truth and accept it will you understand the truth and accept it. I hope you do ... whether you do or not, that's your business, I would prefer you did but if you didn't as I said thats your business... NOW the perfect world goes on to become a perfect reality without you or with you depending on wether you accept or reject to partake and entertain hope, love, truth, understanding, enlightenment... and everything good... Even though you WILL go along you may or may not realize it... as I just said I hope you do ... whether you do or not, that's your business, I would prefer you did but if you didn't as stated thats your business... When are you going to actually realize that zero limits and infinite limits still talks about limits while attempting to point to the transcendental place of infinite possibilities and realities. BTW some possibilities are meant to remain as possibilities forevermore... the fact that something is possible hardly makes it be a viable alternative to manifest. Why would a self awareness seek to negate self awareness ? Why would anyone want to completely annihilates time, hope, craving, outcomes? seems to me the enlightened know what outcomes to cultivate, what cravings to indulge and which to keep as just possibilities. Hope in love, truth, understanding, enlightenment, for enlightenment understanding truth and love sake... 'End-Gaming already has tacit accord with the real within the false" What has tacit accord with the real within, the truth! Each talks and reflects with what they state,think, feel, do what they have within... look at the words and see for yourself what each cultivates... faith, clarity, thinking there is actually something to be sought and cherished in terms of abundance... rather than in terms of lacking... makes evidently how some will invite you to their side while others invite you to a different side... moralistic judgements of right and wrong enables each to choose what be right... though its much better to simply do the right thing always... "the life, art and dream of an empty, open, ruthless realm of the Mysterious Female's heart" pales in comparison to the life art and dreams of a full, open, caring realm of divinely mysterious loving family. beware of taking misery for pleasure, rather than what be for what be...

deci belle What a ranting tirade for daring agains thy wist NOT to introduce such words as "prefer to cultivate better stuff"... I understand that the truth "...will not be tolerated on this thread" for if the untold truth be told charlatans, cheats and liars will be exposed as charlatans, cheats and liars. the key word out of your passage was Untold, for anyone who sees the truth, needs not be told the truth and for anyone who does not see the truth the truth remains untold. Is it appropriate to cultivate avoidance of the truth at all costs? for some it is and for some it is not. Wouldn't it be better and more appropriate to cultivate recognition of the truth? What do you prefer to cultivate : - "untold confusion misleading those who have the potential to keep 'this' knowledge alive..." - sincerity, humility, basic understanding and respect by each and all The words each utter, think, write reflects what each hold within! Each has made it clear what it is they value cherish and desire to cultivate with the words, thoughts, actions, feelings they put forth. Now why would the tolerant need to tolerate the intolerance of the intolerant rather than reflecting it back at them by forcing everyone into tolerance? The wise eventually know what be the truth though their ignorance of the truth does not keep them from following the right path. you asked "What could be more natural? And who could ever tell of it"? Naturally, the one who knows, could tell of it... BTW "the other side of eternity" be 'finite temporality' and somethings are infinitely better when on the side of eternity

julianlaboy, I see "non-conscious thoughts" as whispering 'angels', some whisper we do good stuff (that be done by the angels - the good angels), some whisper we do bad stuff (thats be the devils or the bad angels), we get to choose what way we go and what path we cultivate... (or course assuming we individuals choose rather than the destiny we have). I too support individual differences in the whole consensus argument... some are right some are wrong it all depends on what each happens to hold to be and happens to be. The point I am making is that to understand the word and the absolute meaning of a word we have to look at its actual use with the caveat that it is used by the speaker and used by the listener and it is used every time we think of it... If you want to understand what I said by a given word you have to understand the meaning I associated to that word when I said it... aware and mindful of the fact that each time said it it may be different, its absolute meaning set once and for all every time its used. Hope you see what I mean... tell you what lets do a little exercise please indulge me this. First lets ensure we understand a point, then comment on what we each think about it. The exercise follows a strict pattern... first someone makes a pint, now before commenting on the point, the other has to first demonstrate to the satisfaction of the first they understood the original point made, once this ensures both be talking about the same point, the second comments on the point. This may involve temporarily suspending and considering stuff we may find questionable. If you want to take the lead and focus on "the whole consensus argument" I will follow, if you want me to take the lead and focus on "the authoritative reality" I will lead. Either way eventually we will get to the two if we so choose... I see your disagreement stems from what you choose and hold to believe which paradoxically happens to be self contradictory and denies reality, not because I say so but because it happens to be so! If you accept the invitation, I will do all I can to show and help you see what I see. A relativists has a difficult time with the absolutist... for when they choose to reject the absolutist way they make evident that they are not truly relativist and when they choose to accept the absolutist way well they reject the relativist way... so they exists with paradoxes they can't resolve and even resort to absolute claims like 'there is no absolute truth"... The absolutists can ALWAYS choose the absolute truth to be the relative truth and end up being both an absolutists and a relativists. BTW "because we have some preconceptions about what 'things' are" and choose to set each time the things according to our preconceptions does not alter the fact that each time we choose and set the things we have a choice and according to how we choose it, we be setting them anew. It is convenient not to change some stuff but we always choose anew what way to go... FWIIW we humans live immersed in multiple 'worlds' and can go beyond the limitations of words, and worlds... need I demonstrate it? 'there may not be an exit to..." said little about the possibility of creating a window and a doorway or the fact that there may be no need for the exit to exist at all...