de_paradise

Cat, I tried the Luohan photo. My remarks are that my qi was conspicuously silent, and later I stepped into the scerenity which I saw on his face. So all in all...nothing...or a message. I decided it was a message, and last night I put more effort into maintaining silence while dozing/meditating (because Im such a poor meditator lately) and managed to enter a pretty interesting lucid dream/altered state where sounds were automatically expanded upon, like lights turn into kalaidescope, the sounds turned into muscial variations or many conversational variations. Lucky7, I did learn a method from Max, tried it out once with no discernable results. Even still, it leads me to the question, what kind of things does one bother the ascended beings for? I wonder if Santiago is going to come back and comment on this topic, for I've read many posts of his about his interacting with Glen. Ya Mu, I felt vibes while reading your post! Meson, do you have any first hand experiences you care to share.

Not just a few esoterics having attained spiritual heights, which is our nature, but the entire society being enlightened. This is what we had as humans, and lost some thousands or ten thousands of years ago, because the universe moves in cycles--we are now in a low of the cycle, Amun. This according to an unbroken oral tradition found in Egypt, but also coinciding apparently with some North American indigenous tribes beliefs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtsS3G68MJQ (you can skip most of the first one, the lecture starts at end) Without getting too New Agey, I am interested to know how many people could subscribe to that theory, that we are living in a period of devolution. What seems to be proof is, number one, the pyramids had to have been built by someone, two, many of our esoteric practises come from (reputedly) long ago, pre-Ancient Egypt; the oral tradition mentioned in the lecture, 50,000 years ago, what were societies like, who existed? Thats the question resonating in my mind.

I struggle with this too, can only sympathize not advise. My general policy with people now is something like, try to understand what level they are at, and only give them what you think they need to know so that they can become further interested in the spiritual path. Kind of like the Buddhist skillful approach. There's enough challenge in that to make it interesting for me. Many times, people are very low, doubtful and mocking, and it pisses me off internally while I change the subject. But often others, like last night I was having dinner with some new people, suck it up like gatoraid after a marathon, because maybe they've read a book or two, but have never really met a real cultivator who can make sense of it all. Nevertheless I'm pretty hesitant about mentioning my own experiences, because they are really too martian for comfort. Attacking my own ego has been very useful lately, thanks from a post by "O" of this forum that inspired me. Not that that hadnt occured to me before, but it needs to be regularly attacked.

For the sake of staying on topic, please let us assume we have a person who is pretty virtuous and has pretty high energy; also let us assume that this person is not deliberately going to be calling negative entities, but ascended Taoist masters, Buddhas, etc. So given we have this person, would it not be a shame for him to assume that he is but an isolated isle, and to cultivate relations only with people of this realm, and to avoid calling deities out of a kind of fear or mistrust? I am getting the picture that there is the "let it happen naturally dont wish it" Zen-ish crowd, and the Vajrayana crowd who are complete opposite, but methodical and follow the script handed to them. Suppose there is another choice, the, "if it makes sense do it, if you can."

Interesting. Why do you think that a pure intent should bear rotten fruit? It seems to me that the evolution of all beings is a law of the Tao, or of the universe. Working within that structure or assumption is different from a gimme gimme gimme ego grasping for more type of mind. A mind of compassion includes and emphasizes the desire to help others acheive higher spiritual aims, my evolution is your evolution. Perhaps you can explain how a fraudster can get in the way of what seems to me a fundamental universal law, what a council table is, and if you have personal experiences in these matters that can support your advice; and if one can narrow the potential dangers while not shutting the door to these ascended masters and "lapis blue beings." Thanks for sharing Varjrahridaya.

Well there's two type of approches. The soft-core one is that a deity yidam etc. represents the qualities of oneself, that is, a kind of externalisation of one's own psyche, and to try to connect to this deity is to solidify the qualities that the deity represents. Such as the many Varjrayana deities can help one become more such and such. The more hard-core approach is that deity/ascended person exists as an independent being, existing in a higher dimension/density. Presumably, the pantheon of Buddhas, Taoist elders, saints, gods, are compassionate as their stature would suggest. So...why not contact with them, use this form of contact as a route to enlightenment. It seems obvious that one would want to hang with beings of higher levels, inasmuch as one can. So during my mediations I often try to contact Buddhas, ancestors, and sometimes get a ...feeling... But I have the idea that theres this vast pool of beings who want our spiritual development, and yet we are not inviting them enough to help us. So I created this post to possibly get a better idea of how to get more aquainted.

Remember that Taoists are not trying to solve problems of life, but to return to the source. Its easier to look at these phrases as guidance in technique. You can use your mind as a tool in the goal of returning to the source, by divesting it of concepts and calculations. The cognitive thinking function of the mind gets in the way of the place your mind should be (empty) so that it can be a tool towards your enlightenment. What trips up people when they look at the phrases is they dont realize that letting go and forgetting is a way to accelerate the very real physiological evolution of one's body and mind (jing-qi-shen), many people think of these phrases as simply advice or some cognitive movement to help them overcome their life's stress. The phrases are often served up in a way so they are more attractive to people's desire to help them solve their problems, but in actuality, if you look at them as technology to evolve--which is a long term goal--not a short term mental massage or knowlege, then eventually jing will transform, you will begin to feel what qi is, etc.

deep stuff.

We are too complex an animal to be summarized by a few pithy sentences. Besides that, the traits good for attaining spiritual ascension, such as compassion, generosity, love, world-as-self outlook, childlike curiosity..etc, these are whats really important. Muchthat other stuff about being men or MEN is the outlook of playground and society we live in, not big R reality.

Interesting facts about the Buddhists health problems, SYD. In Bodri's defense, I bought a rebounder (mini trampoline) from advice in his book on detoxing because apparently it stimulates all the cells in the body in a very efficient manner. Also I tried out Scott Sonnon's flofit program from advice I read in Bodri. I think his main point is this: one pointed focus is just better done while sitting rather than doing some exercise. I have found that this is true, because in sitting it takes me no time to acheive a very deep state;while doing some exercise there is not much of a deep meditation or chance to explore ones consciousness.

I think he just wants attention, where negative attention is better than no attention.

Wow, thanks for reviving this thread. Funny I was just naturally doing what is mentioned in this post, intuitively knowing it was the right thing to do: feeling my surroundings with midsection. And true that its all in the attitude. A good many things mentioned in this post I have understood by the by. Nice peice of hypnotic writing too! Beyond this, I was sitting in the bathtub last week and thought that qi circulation is not really qi circulation, its more like using your mind to stimulate various parts of your energy body to get it excited, and moving your mind round and round. That is why whenever I do orbits, the result is an excited energy. But its going to circulate naturally anyway, much faster and much more accurately by itself. I think orbits should be called "orbital stimulation with a bit of qi following" Because most qi (thank your lucky stars) does not follow your concious mind, and the bit that does seem to follow may not be travelling at all, just giving you the illusion of going somewhere. Where in fact---like distance healing energy--it seems to be "created" or transmuted into existence (think quantum physics)from the spot that the intention travels to. Anyway, just something I thought of...

My friend and I are both noticing a heightened Kundalini activity. Especially in evening. Lots of energy getting sucked into me, very dreamy nights. Just wondering if anyone else is getting this.

...more like the sound of a one legged standing ho "I make the Power of Now look like the power of then" hahahaha

Crumbs disappear footprints washed The gull escapes

Flowers are so nice. Check the 4 minute mark on and get an idea of the wriggly circulating alive-ness of what nadis are like. Flowers are prettier.

Just curious. What attainments have you acheived from your teacher's system, or, what sort of things do you ask the devas to do for you?

Apparently you, like most of us, are caught in a web of misinterpretation and worthless logic. There is hope, because it all can happen naturally anyway. Intentions are less likely to be circumvented if you are vigilent of the thoughts that go through your mind, and to not allow just anything grow larger. The book "Measuring Meditations" by Nan and Bodri will supply some more theory and framework for interpretation of what might be going on with you. I think your second chakra or lower dan-tien is energizing, beyond that, I cant speculate.

"Max has decided to cancel his last seminar that was to be held in LA in October of this year." That means I was lucky to attend his last Kunlun seminar in Venice. He's a cool and interesting guy. He was very generous with his knowlege of esoteria and meditations. People can pick away at little issues, but what you see is what you get.

Before I started all this meditation stuff I was doing self hypnosis, just to know how deeply I could go. Well, if any of you have studied hypnosis, in general there are levels, the most common being somnambulism, and deeper than that is called the coma or esdaile state. That was considered the deepest state until a guy named Walter Sichort discovered a deeper state, and this state was noted similar to delta sleep, where dreamless healing takes place. http://ultradepth.com/UDI%20Online%20Store.htm I bought the recording and used it over the course of a year. Typically I would start the recording, and emerge at the end, without knowelege of what happened in between, feeling refreshed not drowsy. (It wasnt sleep, because if you emerge or awaken during the countup its a telltale sign of hypnosis not sleep) The second time I used the tape, something really strange happened, and in hindsight I must have reached some kind of samadhi during the hypnosis because after that time, continuing for about one week I noted unusual phenomena. First, I was very energetic, not hyper, but just not tired. Also I did serious cardio exercise, and it was like my heart beat didnt rise much, I didnt get exerted. Also, my pain threshold seemed to vanish. I remember carrying heavy grocery bags that cut into my skin, but I just didnt get tired or feel pain. Negativity or other people just didnt seem to affect me like they ususally could, like I was placid--and my friend noticed. So I gave him the recording but his mind was too hyper to allow himself to relax, and in hypnosis its primary that you allow yourself to go into hypnosis. I felt like superman, but the effects peaked after a few days, and disappeared after a week. But I continued using it because I realized that it was some kind of meditation shortcut, and at that time I disliked meditation. The first time I felt qi was when I somehow awoke during the hypnosis, and there was some kind of dancing energy on my leg. The effects that I had from using the recording are not unusual, but not everyone has profound effects like that. I took the practitioner course, but I have not used it on anyone. The deep state has limited clinical application in an office setting, but for people who are spiritual seekers, it has much to offer. This recording was what really kick-started my meditations, because once your body knows how to relax, you can access that relaxation by yourself. Hope this helps! Any questions, please ask.

Yeah, 35$ for the ultradepth relaxation. Not the cheapest self hypnosis tape around. Its unique though.

As qi is a conduit of consciousness and also related to the immune system, I would wager yes. The placebo effect has become so acknowleged and yet scientists cannot explain why it works. It just shows how advanced our modern science really isnt.

maybe its as old as the Tao itself.

Some things that havent been mentioned: 1.Use an egg timer, (I downloaded a timer for windows) and time meditations. 2.Do a certain amount of one meditation, then switch. Like some mantra for 15 minutes, then go to microcosmic orbit, then stillness. 3. Detoxing, like herbal detox or fasting is another way to cleanse ones body and hasten spiritual progress. 4. Yoga, or try Scott Sonnon's flow-fit excercises DVD. My roommate got some energetic results from that, and she's not into any of this spiritual stuff. It was recommended by Bodri and in Trunk's site, so I gave it a try. Killer workout, 15 minutes a day. 5. Deep trance hypnosis. I used a mp3 called "ultra-depth relaxation" for ONE YEAR every day. Its 45 minutes long and zonks you out so far down you dont know what happened until the end when he's counting you up. I mean to make a seperate post on this, because its THAT stupendous. I'd add: drowsiness is not counterproductive to meditation if one doesnt nod off. It's the Zen people who like to stay relatively alert, but the Yogi's are well known to go into very deep sleep-like states. Personally I go for the latter, sleeplike state, and get more energetic phenomena at that near-dream image state.

Josh, we are talking about the state of enlightenment that comes from evolution of one's jing qi, and shen, "higher" is just a term. It serves no purpose to imply that someone who uses these terms are being elitist. For some reason, many people throw out this red herring in debate, for example accusing buddhists in being elitist because they use the term Nirvana and Samsara. Kick and scream, denounce, all you want, but there are people who have access to higher realities. Mundane world is also a term, of course its a groovy place, but to distinguish this place from other worlds and realities, we use this term.