Christian

Is being enlightened the same as being awake? It is just that I use those terms differently. I feel being awake can lead to enlightenment. Drinking coffee effects the mind (promotes glutamate release by blocking the adienosine receptor) so it is hard for me to be "awake" after I drink coffee.

No doubt a sage could do harmful things to the physical body without concern. But would they? I have a feeling that many people use this idea as a way to do what their conditioning forces them to do while claiming they are free of their conditioning. And it give bad teachers a way to get people to follow them. And a thought about "everything in moderation..."; everything is a lot of things. Maybe one needs to moderate that as well

Most people here are very far away from the Tao. Please delete my account.

sorry, duplicate post.

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Bad to who?

OK. Let's play. I do not want to communicate with you. I have absolutely nothing to offer you. You do not need any help, the Tao will make sure you return.

Concepts embiggen limited perceptions. Pardon dry humor re: I thought this was a Taoist forum?, I was merely pushing a concept to make my point, which it did, but not how I thought. If this finger masterbation works for you, who says it will work for me? If it works for a hundred, maybe we should look at why so many need to spin their fingers in the first place? So, what is there to ponder if there is nothing to be healed? And; Do I really need to define words? If so, please define define and we can get our words all perfectly agreed upon before we let them all go.

Ha! I understand, but then again, not the same when it comes from a commander!

Meditate on the silliness of your thoughts. Is not creation also destruction? To make a wooden chair I need to cut down a tree, to make a car I need to tear at the heart of the earth. Creation, destruction, no different, why bother with either? Ignore both, save your energy, live a long life.

Me too, like a deer, in the grass.

Maybe some more... Horses, when living in the open country, eat the grass, and drink water; when pleased, they intertwine their necks and rub one another; when enraged, they turn back to back and kick one another;- this is all that they know to do. But if we put the yoke on their necks, with the moonlike frontlet displayed on all their foreheads, then they know to look slily askance, to curve their necks, to rush viciously, trying to get the bit out of their mouths, and to filch the reins (from their driver); this knowledge of the horse and its ability thus to act the part of a thief is the crime of Po-lâo. In the time of (the Ti) Ho-hsü, the people occupied their dwellings without knowing what they were doing, and walked out without knowing where they were going. They filled their mouths with food and were glad; they slapped their stomachs to express their satisfaction. This was all the ability which they possessed. But when the sagely men appeared, with their bendings and stoppings in ceremonies and music to adjust the persons of all, and hanging up their benevolence and righteousness to excite the endeavours of all to reach them, in order to comfort their minds, then the people began to stump and limp about in their love of knowledge, and strove with one another in their pursuit of gain, so that there was no stopping them:- this was the error of those sagely men.

Horse's Hooves by Chuang Tzu Horses can with their hoofs tread on the hoarfrost and snow, and with their hair withstand the wind and cold; they feed on the grass and drink water; they prance with their legs and leap:- this is the true nature of horses. Though there were made for them grand towers and large dormitories, they would prefer not to use them. But when Po-lâo (arose and) said, "I know well how to manage horses," (men proceeded) to singe and mark them, to clip their hair, to pare their hoofs, to halter their heads, to bridle them and hobble them, and to confine them in stables and corrals. (When subjected to this treatment), two or three in every ten of them died. (Men proceeded further) to subject them to hunger and thirst, to gallop them and race them, and to make them go together in regular order. In front were the evils of the bit and ornamented breastbands, and behind were the terrors of the whip and switch. (When so treated), more than half of them died. ... Do you get why I posted this story?

The edit was for a typo. Dialog is useless.

Might I suggest you get back to basics? Pick up a copy of Chuang-Tzu; The Inner Chapters by A.C. Graham

Disease, Health. You see a difference. Keep dreaming and you will only be healthy in a dream. Running from pain, chasing pleasure. Yawn.... I though this was a Taoist forum?

Keep dreaming then.

Illusions on top of illusions.

Ha! What form of Taoism is this that says that humans are higher and animals are lower? Look at the crocodile, it has been living on the earth, unchanged for 200 million years, and we humans? 200,000! Lets wait to see if we out last the crocodile before we make such claims! The silly writing here sometimes! P.S. I do not wish to vibrate more, I want to vibrate less. Everyone is running around like ringing cell phones, vibrating all over the place....

This is not logical and it is nihilistic. You are equating a lamb with a human(?). If you draw the distinction between plant an animal you must also draw a distinction between lamb and human. Canibalism is a creation of society. Eating ones own does not appear in all human cultures. Eating animals, however, does. And you also claim that that canibalism is always wrong. If one man is dead and another is starving would the other eat him to survive? Most people would and they would thank the departed. It is not canibalism or meat eating that is right or wrong, it is the intention behind the act that makes it right or wrong. If you are enlightened you act with no intention and therefor create no kamma. I was vegetarian for years but I ended up having poor wound healing so now I eat meat. Natural is what is healthy for our particular body. The body has more intelligence than we could ever capture with thought. We just need to get out of its way. I found when I stopped worrying about others suffering and focused on why I was suffering I automatically reduced the suffering of others with out effort. Wu Wei.

There are times when the Tao is hidden from the world. During these times It is best to lay low and take to the mountains if you can.

The Tao is unmotivated. The hidden motivation you have to seek some motivation is the place I like to look.

"Our life has a boundary but there is no boundary to knowledge. To use what has a boundary to pursue what is limitless is dangerous; with this knowledge, if we still go after knowledge, we will run into trouble." -Chuang Tzu