mrtiger

Well who knows? On the one hand he may have died from Ayahuasca use. On the other it may be a government / new world order plot. I'm going with the first. It seems more plausible.

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Ok fair enough. Let's agree to disagree. I believe this story. It seems straightforward. A teen died in Peru and it's likely Ayahuasca was used. What's your version? It was a conspiracy to discredit Ayahuasca which in turn is part of a wider agenda for control of peoples minds or something?

Ok so to recap my question was - Do you think it's at all possible that Ayahuasca could ever cause death? Your answer was in short - yes it's possible, even if the odds are slim. So my next question to you is this: If someone did die from Ayahuasca ingestion, what would it take for you to believe it? How are you ever able to separate the conspiracy from reality?

Sure. People also die from eating nuts (allergies). It's sensible to consider the possibility that Ayahuasca might harm you or kill you. Now if that's the case. We might also assume that every now and again someone will die. And that might also get reported in the press. That's what this likely boils down to. Someone took Ayahuasca. He died. But that's not enough for some. Phrases like "disinformation" "alien agenda" and "media conspiracy" appear. The wholesale belief in conspiracy theories is surely one of the biggest reality filters out there.

I think you're right.

Right so alcohol etc kills lots of people. Lots more that psychedelics. (Alcohol use is far more prevalent so it would only be comparable if the same amount of people who drank, took psychedelics. Maybe one is worse than the other. In any case I don't really think it's important.) What concerns me is something different. Namely - the the closed mindset of many of the people who have commented on this post. They instantly point to conspiracy because they don't like the idea that psychedelic drugs could kill. It doesn't fit with their outlook. I ask people to look at the facts and consider this news story with a genuinely open mind, not a pre-determined dogmatic outlook. Can you do that people?

Let me ask you a simple question. Do you think it's at all possible that Ayahuasca could ever cause death.

OK fair enough. It's taken me a while to gauge the mentality of the people who are commenting on this topic. But you've made me realise how futile any kind of reasoned response is. I'm not against the drug or any drug. I just want a sensible and balanced conversation about it. I see now that this is not the correct forum.

Yea, "might include" a lot of things.

This has been a tiny story in the great scheme of things. And you're all actually focussing on completely the wrong element of the story. An American mother's son went missing and after a campaign in Peru she discovered he was buried in the jungle. Imagine this was you and your son had gone missing. It's harrowing. That's why the story is making headlines. As for the media deliberately setting out to demonise this plant. I don't think the media cares. It's not going to get clicks or shift papers unless there's a human story behind it.

It doesn't relate to spiritual thought or practice.

Agree. I don't understand why these is an appropriate topic for TaoBums. Wouldn't a supernatural / ghost forum be more appropriate for this kind of thing?

I wonder what the boy's mother thinks of your claims that this is disinformation. It looks like a robust story to me. There are lots of recorded deaths from psychedelics. And here's another two ayahucasca deaths http://colombiareports.com/colombia-news/news/18348-2-die-in-north-colombia-ayahuasca-ceremony.html But I guess you're going to tell me that they are crazy stories made up by the government to control us in some way. Why do you guys find it so hard to believe a psychedelic drug could kill or harm you? Surely it's possible. And if it is possible it's probably happened a few times.

I've never really seen any 'government propaganda' about marijuana in my own country. We had a talk about drugs in general at school... once. That's about it. I think people in Europe are actually relatively openminded about cannabis use in fact. It's not demonised. It's certainly not the centre of conspiracy or propaganda. There have been been a lot of clinical studies which have demonstrated both good and bad consequences of marijuana use. Surely it's very telling that when a seemingly innocent and non partisan study of marijuana use gets posted to this forum, it quickly becomes politicised with phrases such as 'government propaganda'. And no one need to demonise it because it's been given a bad name by casual smokers who have reinforced the tin foil hat, tie die wearing stereotypes that might have been fashionable in the 60s and 70s but seem like an outdated cliche in todays world.

Noting against shamanistic use of drugs or cannabis. Each to their own. But - there's a big difference between shamanic ingestion of psychedelics and recreational marijuana use - right? I think the difference it this: Shamans use plants and ritual to communicate with the spirit world. This is not for the shamans enjoyment nor is it something taken lightly. As far as I understand the rituals may only take place once every month or so when the conditions are right. Compare this with the casual dope smoker who consumes cannabis as they would coca-cola or pizza. BTW that's the second time you've accused me of being "ignorant" on this forum. What's up with that?

Sorry was just a general comment, nothing personal. Agree it's just clouds. Reality is crisp and sober, for me at least...

I think cannabis is detrimental to meditation, qigong and cultivation. Much more than moderate alcohol use. Why? It clouds your vision and actually takes you away from reality. Cannabis stays in your bloodstream for up to three months which is a long period of abstention to enter back to reality proper. If you could become enlightened from smoking dope then I think we'd have a plentiful number of masters among us! I've nothing against it of course but if I was a dope smoker who wanted to practice meditation and qigong, it'd be the first thing to go.

Agree. Like blowing your nose, it just feels like it needs to come out sometimes. I've been taking note of what happens when I manually release (that's the polite way of putting it!) Weirdly I've notice I actually get a lot of energy going to my head. I get quite a hot face and have to take a shower. Sex is of course a lot more rewarding, release or not...

Hi Turtle Shell, your 2 cents is much appreciated. I'm quite happy to do some moderate retention with release say every couple of weeks, but beyond that seems unnatural to me unless you're looking for a rapid awakening. As with regards to the 100 days. What actually happens after that? I guess I'm looking for something balanced and sustainable rather than a crash diet. Any thoughts?

I've not read either. Which one would you recommend first? I'm really looking for something sensible to get me started on retention. (I have Mantak Chia's book but I've decided not to go down that path). I'm not looking for some amazing Kundalini type experience, just some gentle advice on how I might conserve my jing and (ideally) work that into a relationship.

Ah I have Dr Yang Jwing Ming's book. It's very good. I've just been dipping into it. He sidesteps the sexual issue though. I'm really looking for something that has some really solid advice on the retention issue.

Did you ever read any of these books? What was the verdict? (I'm thinking of getting Foundations of Internal Alchemy but wondering if it's too advanced for me).