mrtiger

OK you're going to need to give a really really good explanation of this. Science is about measuring and categorising things. Tao is about cultivation the self. If you took away the dogma from Tao (of which there is very little) how the heck is this going to become scientific?

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As interesting as this is, the reason I like Tao is that it does away with all the mystery. It's likely we'll never know who build the pyramids and why. We could think about where this comes from until we die but the work that needs to be done is inside. As much as it's interesting to speculate it doesn't really help me on my path. In fact I think it might be a little fanciful. Here's a great quote from Chaung Tzu. "Duke Huan was reading a book in the hall. Wheelwright Pian, who had been chiseling a wheel in the courtyard below, set down his tools and climbed the stairs to ask Duke Huan, "may I ask what words are in the book Your Grace is reading?" "The words of sages." the Duke responded. "Are these sages alive?" "They are already dead" That means you are reading the dregs of long gone men, doesn't it?" Duke Huan said How does a wheelwright get to have opinions on the books I read? If you can explain yoursel f I'll let it pass otherwise, it's death." W'heelwright Pian said: ''In my case I see things in terms of my own work. When I chisel at a wheel, if I go slow the chisel slides and does not stay put; if I hurry, it jams and doesn't move properly When it is neither too slow nor too fast I can feel it in my hand and respond to it from my heart. My mouth cannot describe it in words but there is something there 1 cannot teach it to my son and my son cannot learn it from me So I have gone on for seventy years, growing old chiseling wheels The men of old died in possession of what could not transmit. So it follows that what you are reading is their dregs.""

I'm not sure how that would help. There is a lot of scientific data regard psi research that it flatly ignored by the skeptical community. Even something which has great data such as acupuncture is dismissed by the real skeptics. For people like Randi (who incidentally has been reported as fabricating parts of his own research), they are to far opposed to anything beyond the mainstream to be objective. There is a middle way and I'd point to someone like evolutional biologist Rupert Sheldrake as having compelling data on psi. If you're looking for data on Chi, I'd head to acupuncture research. I believe the results of a huge international study are due to be released this week so watch the press. But bear in mind that the larger scientific community is not open minded about these kinds of things. I think because it would radically alter their own beliefs. It would be a huge huge moment for science and for our civilisation if any of this stuff were conclusively proved to be true. But accept that if you're closed minded to this kind of thing them that is a dogma in itself. If you can come to the middle and embark on research without a prior opinion then you'll find load of interesting stuff.

Right now... The Secret of the Golden Flower, Ta Chuan, Finn Family Moomintroll, The Root of Chinese Qigong and The Mystics of Islam. Room is a bit of a mess ho ho

Hey Stillness, May I ask what your views on retention are now? Do you still retain? I have Mantak Chia's book. Would you avoid it. Do you think any of it is useful? Mr T

Hello Tao Bums, I'm an opinionated person and I often get a bee in my bonet about certain subjects. I always have to have the last word. I get into heated debates and often get emotional. I know this is not a harmonious way to behave. The last line in the Dao De Ching says it very nicely: "Wise men don't need to prove their point; men who need to prove their point aren't wise." This is all very well. But practically how can I detach from my strong opinions? Are there any mediations, texts or coping strategies you could suggest? ***Edit*** I thought I'd add a little more detail as I think this issue runs deeper than just defending my position. I think I actually enjoy an argument. I'll pick on minor points and make them an issue. I often think debate comes down to who can shout the loudest and who can make the best point. I'm actually quite good at this, but it makes me aggressive and I suppose I just don't want to be 'that' person.

I can't recommend Flying Phoenix Qigong enough. I've suffered low energy problems and it's sorted me right out. I just learnt (and am still learning) from the Dvds. I've tried various types of Qigong, meditation and yoga over the years and this is by far the most effective. I'm not very 'spiritually sensetive' but this has had some really deep effects, even on me. There also a really good FP community here on Tao Bums.

Hey thanks. This looks really interesting. Yes will need to call my dear mother! But I think my sun sign is indeed Capricorn. I mean that's my standard star sign anyway. I do wonder if wanting to be right and win arguments is either 1) Because I'm not entirely confident in my won beliefs. or 2) Somehow I feel less intelligent than others so winning arguments is a way of dealing with that.

I appreciate your comment. I know I need to let go, but how? Surely there must be some mediations out there...

Unfortunately you're describing me here. How can I become more humble and less aggressive?

Well done guys. Love the redesign.

Thanks for the reply Terry. I have a fairly broad question for you - What should I add to my practice? At the moment I'm doing approx 2hrs for FP in the morning and 45 mins of seated Zazen before bedtime. I also swim and cycle once a week and do a bit of walking. I have roughly one hour at lunch to that I'd like to fill. What do you think would compliment my current practice? Tai Chi perhaps? Or maybe some straight up exercise like running? Or maybe a different practice. I've never tried Kung-Fu, I'm not sure how well I'd be suited to it. Any ideas welcome!

I see! What are your first impressions of the book? Is it ok?

I found that I've actually got a bit of an internet addiction. I'm browsing useless stuff whilst I'm supposed to be working or doing something else. I downloaded an App called freedom which just switches off your internet connection for a specified amount of time. I think a lot of the things we do are just habit. It sounds like your addiction could also be a habit. So you need to break your way of thinking and create a new habit. I think NLP is quite good for this. Take a look at Richard Bandler's book Get The Life You Want.

Thanks for the reply. Thinking about buying a copy, going to take two months to arrive though!

I'd say that's debatable. Whilst they may use the Chinese terms, ideas such as chakras, prana and asanas are common in non Chinese/Japanese Buddhism and I assume predate it. So we can't consider the chi and the dantien unique to Chinese culture. It's just that they have different names and of course a different system. My original point in this thread is not to think of Taoism and Buddhism as different but similar. And I think this is a really good case for their similarities.

They do in Zen. They call it the Tanden or sometimes the Hara. In Zazen emphasis is put on the Tanden. Your'e supposed to move the seat of your consciousness there.

It's an interesting point. I mean logically. If eating say, a lamb, is acceptable then why not a human. Why is canibalislm a taboo and eating meat not. I mean sheep have emotions, they suffer just like humans do so what really is the difference?

Has anyone got a copy of the new book yet? Care to review it?

There is a theory that Jesus went East. Check out this documentary Of course there is another one that he went to France. Another that he went to England and another he went to the USA. They seem to get even more outlandish and I'm sure there are more depending on where you live in the world. I think people see what they want to. I'm not sure quite how helpful that is. In fact I'm not sure if it's how important it is whether figures like Christ, Buddha, Lao Tzu or Pythagorus actually existed (the evidence is scant for all). What is perhaps more interesting to me are the real origins of Christianity. I think unlike the religions of the East, in the West our own Shamaism and mystery school, our own version of the tao with it's secret practices was essentially destroyed in the massive book burnings and suppression of knowledge carried out by the Church over the last 2000 years. I think the only way back into our true origins is so codified that it's almost impossilbe to make any sense of it at all. Someone posted some clips about Western Astrology on here recently and it's just so incomprehensible. They have to quote 11th century islamic scholars who were looking at this with 1000 years of distance.

There is very little evidence for a historical Jesus. It looks quite likely he was a compote of pagan deities such as dionysus, osiris, mirthras etc. Essentially , literal Christianity was the pagan religion that won.

I'm not sure how helpful looking at the differences between Taoism and Buddhism are. Perhaps we should be looking at what they have in common instead. Personally I take from both traditions and consider myself neither. I don't feel the need to choose. Taoism and Buddhism aren't the only paths. There are many other worthy traditions. And ultimately all the are are vessels for our development.

Nice poem. I think it's true that to eat, and actually to live, we have to kill be that plant, microbe or insect crushed under foot - it's something we can't avoid. So it's a mistake for vegetarians or vegans to consider themselves holier than thou. But if we accept that to live is also to destroy, we can at least try and minimise that as much as possible and not eating meat is a great step to that. Not only for the animals but in terms of the eco system of the planet as well. In the West of course most of us have a choice of what we can eat. We're very lucky. If I was a Sami or an Inuit, I imagine that there wouldn't be any alternative to meat and fish.

I was veggie for about seven years. After living in Spain for three years I started eating a bit of meat as vegetarianism wasn't very developed whilst I was there. But I always felt guilty as soon as I put that fork in my mouth. I began to think of the process and how the animals felt when they were slaughtered. I could never get over it. So I'm happily a vegetarian again. I don't regret my meat eating period, actually it made me realise what's important to me.