yiming

I appreciate your openness to reason. However, I wish to point out that my argument appears correct but is not quite valid. Just because we believe that the eternal Tao cannot be spoken doesn't mean that I have the right to offer any foolish meaning of the Tao Te Ching. For example, even though there is no truly great US President ( 聖 人 ) around to compare with, it is still possible to recognize the fool (Obama). In this regard, Chapter 2 has relevance. 故 有 無 相 生，難 易 相 成，長 短 相 形，高 下 相 傾，音 聲 相 和，前 後 相 隨 The above selection talks about comparison in order to establish have and have-not, difficult and easy, long and short, high and low, voice and sound, front and back. "voice and sound" doesn't fit in the comparitive mix , does it? Perhaps, "loud and soft" would be apt but that would wreck the rhythm of the verse. What do you think? Also, please clarify the use of the following qualifiying phrases: 相 生， 相 成，相 形，相 傾，相 和，相 隨

Sifu Chi, you obviously know - through my own admission - that my fluency in Chinese is poor. Why do you use this fact to deny me access to the Tao Te Ching? Line 1 - and every other line in all 81 Chapters of the Tao Te Ching - can have any meaning one gives to it. You may not like the meaning I come up with, but that doesn't mean that it is incorrect. No meaning, with regard to the Tao, can ever be incorrect unless and until an absolutely correct meaning (of the Tao) can be established. Since Lao Tze said that this is not possible (according to your translation of Line 1), then we should not waste energy debating the issue on who understands the Tao Te Ching and who does not. Classical Chinese, however, is another matter; and on this topic, you are the expert and I the student. Shall we move on to Chapter 2?

Even greater than 陳鼓應? Come on, don't be cruel. I can't read Chinese and just managed to stab in the dark with your help on a few words in Chapter 1. Sifu Chi, please correct my mistakes if I am off the mark. I really need your guidance and take a stab at Chapter 2.

Wah! You wait for my comments? Sounds like a gunfight about to begin; better still, a swordfight like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTsKEgUJyUQ Ok, here is my interpretation of Chapter 1 followed by my comments: 1 It seems like the way It’s so much like the way It seems like the form It’s so much like the form. Out of nothingness arises the awareness of things. And out of awareness arises the forms of all things. Awakened, nothing stirs. Entranced, all things arise. Yet, all things come from nothing. And nothing is everything. Wonderment. It’s truly wonderment! To be awed is to be open to learning. This chapter appeals to our love of mystery and mysticism. It piques our curiosity and draws us into the realm of the unknown and the unknowable. Life as we understand it is a story we made up about what we are, and where we are, in time and space. It seems that we are human beings living on planet Earth that is spinning around the Sun. We call this objective reality. In this realm of existence, we live out our lives as people with other people we know, the possessions we have, the fears we harbor and the things we crave. Yet, we struggle to escape from it all through religion, through science, through philosophy and through art. What are we? How come there is a “me”? It is strange that no one has really figured this out. The dissembling of our existential prison, the facts of life, the structure of our being, is a process of inquiry. It is the examination of the known, which is everything in life that we accept as irrefutably authentic. We know the things we perceive with our senses just as we comprehend the word on the written page. This is because we have learned to recognize the meaning of the code. Otherwise, there would be no objective reality as we understand it; and, similarly, no language but meaningless squiggles or utterances. Thus, there are no manifestations without learned comprehension. Therefore, to know the facts about life is not to know the truth about anything.

Sifu Chi, thanks for a quick response. I have switched to my notebook with Windows Vista for this conversation. It is much better to be able to see the charcters. So, you don't have your own interpretation? By native knowledgeable scholars, do you mean Taiwanese guys? Are you from Taiwan? But you said you are cantonese. Cantonese are from Hong Kong. I have to do some errands but will be back to continue with this. Before I go, I am posting Chapter 1 below as read by my mandarin teacher. I was stunned to see the difference in her meaning from your Chapter 1 based on the punctuation (line 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7) alone! Chapter 1 1. 道可道，非常道。 2. 名可名，非常名。 3. 無名, 天地之始。 4. 有名, 萬物之母。 5. 故常無 欲, 以觀其妙。 6. 常有欲, 以觀其徼。 7. 此兩者, 同出而異名， 8. 同謂之玄。玄之又玄， 9. 眾妙之門。

Sifu Chi, thanks for explanations. You did not explain "su-en". Does this refer to it? " 同謂: said to be the same; also said to be alike " Is the following your own interpretation of the last 3 lines? 同謂之玄。 They are said to be mysterious. 玄之又玄， Mysterious and even more mysterious, 眾妙之門。 The gate of all changes. What is your understanding of Chapter 1? Do you have your own interpretation? Please post it here for me to see.

I am using Windows XP and can't get chinese script in the control panel as you directed. I could see your characters when using another computer. Anyway, let's try romanized chinese words in mandarin. Here goes: In Chapter 1 the last three lines are "Tung wei che su-en, su-en che yew su-en, choong meow che men" something like that. Can you give meanings of the underlined "characters"? What do you mean by "tung"? what do you mean by "wei" and "su-en" and "choong" and "meow"? Explain to me as though you are doing it in cantonese. It's unfortunate that my language teacher could only read out the Tao passages in mandarin. In cantonese, I would get it because I watched so many Wong Fei Hoong kungfu movies. Let's

I can see your Chinese characters now. I wasn't able to see them before. So, please paste Chapter 1 in Chinese characters and I will pick the ones I don't know and need your clarification. By the way, I get your explanation on 易 which means easy or "no sweat" to getting it. I don't get 意明. So, what do you mean by 意? Can you use it for easy to eat or easy to kill?

I am not totally illiterate. I am a Cantonese. I grew up watching cantonese movies. I just need some help with certain characters. I know the meaning of tao which is "do" in Bruce Lee's Juet Kun Do. It's the way. Being a Chinese, I am already half way to understanding the language. All I need is another Chinese guy to explain what a certain character means. No other guy can do this. You know what I mean? A white guy - even a learned Jesuit - won't cut it. Sorry. I hope Chi Dragon is a Chinaman.

I don't see any characters. I couldn't paste any character in my post. Why don't you paste Chapter 1 Chinese characters and I will ask you to give meanings to the characters I don't understand. Ok?

Hello forum-minder, I am reporting here as instructed. I am here to learn the Tao Te Ching text. Although I am ethnic Chinese, I don't know the language let alone understand classical Chinese. I look forward to learning the meaning of the lithographic characters in the Tao Te Ching text. yiming

Hi Chi Dragon, I would like to learn. Is it possible to paste chinese characters in this post?