i am

I can't handle the bitterness I could before. I used to love really bitter IPAs. Now I like floral hoppy beers, but not bitter hoppy ones. I can't seem to have more than one beer before I feel all out of sorts lately, though, so I guess my taste in beer doesn't matter much anymore. What is missing in western culture that isn't missing in others? I'm trying to think of bitter foods from other cultures and can't come up with much more than we have.

I used to drink Yerba mate back when I still drank coffee. Then I got really used to good Chinese green tea for a couple years. Saw mate in the store and remembered liking it, so I bought some... Yuck! Tastes like cigarette butts.

Are you being sarcastic? Because I'm pretty sure he was.

Exactly. I drink several cups of green tea every day. I have no problem with a cup of coffee now and then.

Yep. I've known people who went through every form of tobacco out there. Started out chewing, started cigarettes to quit chew, cigars to quit cigarettes, etc...

Oh, and no offense to the OP, but coming from a wealthy family makes these kinds of thoughts and decisions much easier. It's a lot harder to tell someone who grew up poor and struggling that its preferable to be poor. That doesn't take away from the truth of your statements; just be easy on people if they don't agree with you...they may not have had the privilege of growing up able to contemplate this sort of thing.

Yep. I'm lucky enough to live in an area of the country where a good chunk of the population respects simple living. On top of that, I surround myself with GOOD people. Life's alright.

Definitely harder to cut the coffee in winter than summer. All there is to it...is to do it. I mean its not easy, but if you want to badly enough you will. It took a long time for tea to satisfy the same craving as coffee for me, but it did finally happen. The nice thing is how much money I save. Where I live, there isn't much good tea. I used to go buy a coffee sometimes in the morning and always in the early afternoon. Some weeks I'd probably spend $15-20 on coffee. But the idea of going to a coffee shop and paying even $2 for a cup of hot water and a tea bag? No thanks! Not I'm used to my high quality whole leaf tea. But I'll admit that even though I did drink coffee nearly every day for a few years, I was never really hooked. Some days it would be 2pm and I'd realize I forgot to drink coffee... But it is really good, and it was tough for me for a while to stop. Now I'm totally over my attachment to it. I'll have a cup once every few months. It's pretty rough on my system now that I'm not used to it, though...can't believe I used be ok with the smell, jitters and stomach stuff I get from it...

And I realize this is not a new idea That the point of life on earth is to experience pain, pleasure, joy and suffering? Because in the realm of pure energy and consciousness, those things can't really be experienced in this way? That, whether because energy gets sucked into a newly conceived baby whether it wants to or not, or because some energy which is conscious decides it wants to, that we are purposely here in the physical realm to experience the pain, agony, and joy of it? So someone born into a life of mostly joy can then, after, exchange notes with someone born into hunger, famine and war? Because all these things aren't available in the spiritual realm? And then when you die, you are released, whether you never ejaculated, or did a million times? Cultivation would still be very important, because it would remind you of where you came from, and where you'll go back to. It would keep you focused on what is really important in life, and what to not get hung up on, and where the real joy is, not what modern consumer culture tells you it is. Would, then, all the self-loathing, physical realm-loathing escapists wake up, after they die, and utter a collective "OOPS"? "We purposely avoided all the things that we specifically put ourselves in a physical body to experience". Because I know how these topics can go, I will say that in this scenario, much of what Taoists practice would still hold true. The above ideas are no excuse to live a life of gluttony and waste, violence and greed. Though those are all part of it. I know I don't need the threat of hell or non-enlightenment to be good. I'm good because I AM GOOD, not because I think I should be. Even if there is no point to life and I become nothing (and not the awesome taoist nothing) when I die, I would still do good. This is not an excuse to be a slob, lazy, eat all junk, drink, etc. But if you want to...it's your existence, do what you want. But I think to keep in touch with my original self, discipline in what I eat and in general how I treat my body and other people and other other life forms is very important. But will I experience a different rejoining of the universal energy because I choose to love and have sex with women? Because I have some chocolate after dinner, and maybe a milkshake here and there?? Because I didn't meditate quite as often as I should have? You better believe I'm going to make the most out of this life. Luckily for me, a full happy life doesn't involve buying endless shit, eating anything my cravings ask of me...Basically, avoiding a materialistic vain lifestyle of stuff and putting junk into my body doesn't strike me as "not living life to the fullest". I am so much more happy when I detach from all that and find the real joys and suffering in life. So I guess my thought is that living a very spiritual life, while realizing that this world, pain suffering joy and all, is not something I'm going to try to escape from and hate and feel is a burden. I'm going to see it as a paradise, and make all I can out of it, and see what happens when I die. And as someone who must have been very wise once said, "say not that I have found THE truth. Say instead that I have found A truth". Or something like that.

That's the "story" I was thinking of, yep.

It's not all the same and it does matter. To me, anyways. If you understand the system, you are aware. I'm sure some people would prefer not to know they're enslaved. I mean if you can't do anything about it?.. But personally I want to know. I guess it's a zen thing...at first you don't know. So youre happy. Then you start getting little glimpses, so you struggle and fight and try to learn more and break free of your bonds. If you're lucky enough to really get it figured out...you go back to what you were doing in the first place before you knew, except now you know, and so it's better. And you're happy again.

Reminds of a great bluegrass musician I knew, r.i.p. He loved Bill Monroe. And Flatt & Scruggs. He would only play that music in the most traditional way, and scoffed at anything new. "That's not how Bill would have done it". What those pioneers did became indoctrinated. Bluegrass LAW. But...all of those artists were pioneers, breaking traditions and creating new things! Why is it that the most free and adventurous and open minded people attract the most rigid, controlling, following, blind people and societies to them? Look at this awesome new thing! Lets do it and never come up with a new thing again. And on top of that let's create organization around this way of doing things. It's such a good idea that we should make it law, make up a bunch of rules around it, and force other people to agree with it. Yeah, that seems cool.

You're right. I view this life and this world as a paradise, though I need to remind myself of that often. I cultivate, and if my energy merges with the great universal energy and I move on after this life, awesome! But you better believe I'm having a great time in this life, as much as I can, and not a miserable downer to people who I interact with. Yeah life is full of suffering, but its also full of awesome shit. How you take it determines if this life, illusion or not, is a paradise or a hell to escape. Probably why Buddhism doesn't speak to me as strongly as Taoism.

I pretty much follow your advice already, and my life is pretty enjoyable. 1996??? I've never owned a vehicle newer than 93 But there's a point of diminishing returns...there's a sweet spot with used vehicles, where they're old enough that you can buy them without a loan, but they have lots of good life left in them. You go too old, and they start needing major work, often (but not always). My most recent vehicle purchase is a 1978. I haven't even had a tv for years, so no cable obviously. Name brand soaps and detergents?? Hell no! Unless they're cheaper. Do people on this board really care about that? I hardly own anything that draws "phantom power". Appliances with clocks on them, when you have three other actual clocks, including your cell phone, in the house already, etc. Very good points, and hopefully most of them are no brainers to most people!

Yeah I know nothing about this topic but it seemed like an alright post to me. I think blatant subtlety describes what you were saying better than blatantly subtle. I'm going to have to write a song or something named blatant subtlety. I love it.

Is that directed toward me or pie guy? I don't know what man #s mean. I'm on this forum because its a rare place that I can actually connect with other people interested in spiritual matters, and hopefully learn very important things.

Blatantly subtle! I say with no sarcasm or ill intent, that I love it! It sounds like an oxymoron, but there are absolutely great examples of this very thing. Nice.

I highly value solitude and need a LOT of time to myself. But still, for me, friends are a necessity for a full, rich life. You guys must really attract some crappy folks...I have so many truly great people in my life it's actually turned into a stress, because I can't figure out how to get the solo time I need, and still maintain the relationships I have with them. Unfortunately what's happening is that the ones who don't understand me are pushing away, thinking I must not like them enough since I don't hang out enough. The ones who "get it" are fairly ok with seeing me when they see me, so long as they see that I do make some effort. Anyway...

Tough? No. Just good. Not high maintenance, not looking for someone to take care of them sometimes not even looking for someone to be with... Most women I've dated in my life have been more career motivated than me. I've met a couple that would love for me to be the stay at home dad, if things had gone that far.

I sure do like "intermountain west" women...Not much of that stuff around here, pretty or otherwise.

Yes. I wasn't giving advice on what to do, just what to be aware of. A lot of expenses associated with cars, so that should be figured into the budget if he's going to have one. Bikes can be much cheaper, if where you live and work is conducive to it. But I know people who can spen a LOT of money on a bike...

Oh and I noticed motorcycle and car. Cars are EXPENSIVE. Figure in oil changes, tuneups, plus things like new tires and other major expenses now and then. My projects are always vehicles (sometimes musical instruments)...they'll easily suck up all your money and time, unless you're smart on what vehicle you own, and become your own mechanic. But a car will cost you around $60 every couple months for oil changes, and unless you can somehow avoid all maintenance (which just causes more expensive problems down the road), figure a couple hundred bucks (or even several hundred to a thousand) twice a year on random stuff going wrong.

You pay for your credit card? What's $50 for credit card mean? Be very careful with those things... Better than a debit card because you have better fraud protection, but you can use a debit card for anything you'd need a credit card for, and they don't allow you to spend money you don't have. But credit cards have all sorts of bonuses, so if you're disciplined, they're the better option. I can't get Internet for cheaper than $50/month...downside of living in the mountains.

Your budget does look pretty good, aside from food. I'm not too careful about what I spend on food, but I probably spend around $300 a month. If you don't take on any "projects" that suck you dry of all your money (my biggest issue), you can do pretty well. I make what you're looking to make. I'm in a fairly cheap western state, where the culture is outdoors. Once you buy some gear, you only pay for the gas money to get places. Can be a pretty inexpensive life. You will be surprised what other avenues your money finds to spend itself...but if you are careful, that amount of money can really allow you to be pretty comfortable. It's all up to you. I was living quite comfortably, until I picked up a project...now I'm living paycheck to paycheck, having to take a little out of savings here and there when I overspend. I've never been much for budgets.... I should change that! I will say, if you're good about saving money, and you end up making the upper range of what you're going for (before taxes), your take-home money, what shows up in your checking account to go to all those expenses, will be more like $1,600 a month. Without stating exactly what I make cause this is weird... But since I've been making what you want to make for around 8 years, starting at the low end and slowly moving to the high end, I have a pretty realistic view of how much money it is. I'm single and my money is my own. I'm responsible and don't own much, but you'd be amazed where you can spend all your money if you don't stick to a strict budget. If you made $40,000 pre tax, got paid twice a month and put a couple hundred in savings each paycheck, you're really looking at $1,600ish a month. You better be willing to get a roommate if you don't get a girlfriend. Add in repairs to stuff, medical visits every now and then, don't get a pet, add in food because that's a major expense. You mention going out drinking, which even in my comparably (to Cali) very cheap state, is EXPENSIVE. Especially when if its right after work, which usually leads to grabbing dinner out. You will NOT have the money you're expecting. But if you can be disciplined and stick to a strict budget, you can have plenty of money, and travel. In my work, I can only take the amount of time international travel really requires, once every two years. Because I like camping trips and other stuff where I'm taking a day off here and there, sometimes a week off for a long desert trip or something. Unless you're job allows more flexibility, or you're willing to give up on/turn down all little cabin weekend camping weekend extended weekend trips with friends, twice a year real traveling isn't going to happen, money wise or time off wise. So...the real deal is that any amount of money over $30,000 a year is plenty of money, DEPENDING ON YOUR LIFESTYLE. Some can do well on 10k a year. Most will never feel they have money no matter how much they make, and many of those really truly are hard up and on the edge because they blow all their money all the time and end up coming up short on important things every month. So it's up to you. I think you're on the right track, but are being over optimistic about the amount of money you'll have to play around with. A year or two in the real world making a "living wage" will teach you what the truth is, and you'll be able to figure it out from there. Those who know what's important to them, keep focused on it, keep to budgets and are disciplined, do really quite well in life as long as no major health problems or anything like that plague them. Mot of us are too willing to cave and spend money going out with friends, buying stuff etc.

In defense of baguakicksass and at the risk of setting off the OP, this is something he does. Post a question, and if he doesn't like the answers he flips out and deletes the thread. Stupid answers, answers that miss the point, answers that somehow want to argue even the most basic, obvious point you could ever hope to make, are all part of life on an Internet forum. Get used to it. That seems to me to be baguakicksass point, which I wholeheartedly agree with. I'll stay out of your thread now.