i am

Yes, I heard about it, and practice getting the feeling when I'm walking. Haven't got there yet. Honestly I'll probably never practice bagua seriously for a decade. I'm more of a dabbler, when it comes to martial arts. I'm just relating my experience, that standing has helped my bagua. It's cool if you disagree. Of course there's a big difference. I don't see anyone claiming that bagua or taoist circle walking meditation should become a stationary practice, and give up the circle walking. Just whether adding a standing practice to it is helpful.

No, they're all just not responding to your thread

Just to address your question, no. I don't watch MMA (it does nothing for me and glorifies violence and idolizes violent people). I also haven't seen an MMA guy mop the floor with a good internal martial artist. So all I'm going on is my exposure to each "fighting style". Taking into account what merciless one said, in my opinion, those who practice their art internally/softly are superior fighters. Beyond that, the vast majority of all the discussion I've seen on this topic all over the internet, is that it's just people from both sides talking about stuff they don't know about. People who don't study martial arts but watch MMA think MMA guys are the most badass humans on the earth, and Chinese martial arts are just "showy". Bagua, Taiji and Xingyi students think MMA is glorified boxing, with so many "rules" that you can't compare it to a real fight (you aren't allowed to rip someone's skin off, snap limbs, break necks, destroy internal organs, which is the majority of what you train in Chinese arts...they aren't sport, they aren't for playing around), and that internal training gives you something extra. But you could say that if you took the same rules away from an MMA guy, he could do more damage. And the debate goes on and on... Along the same lines...there's a difference between training in external arts, and traing for MMA. External and internal arts are both life & death arts. MMA is not. BUT, I will give you this: those who train for MMA are, quite often, getting more "real" fighting experience than your average Chinese martial art student. My argument is if you take an MMA guy, and a bagua master, mr. bagua cleans up 8 times out of 10. No I can't prove it. You take any MMA guy and put him against your average western bagua student...8 times out of 10, to completely make up some numbers, mr. mma cleans up. In the end, MMA guys are way tougher than I'll ever be. Some of them would do amazing in any street fight. Some may not... My opinion is that training in the soft arts is like the final touch on a hard art that brings you to a different level. Therefore someone who, after training hard arts and becoming a master, moved into the soft arts, would be more badass than any MMA guy. And that for people like me who have no interest in fighting, but love martial arts, the energy work and flow of the internal arts is great. I have no interest in standing in a line of people, in Mabu, throwing punches and grunting. But walking the circle and practicing a taiji form is awesome. Which doesn't help prove my point at all. There. Since I directly asked you a question and you responded, I didn't want to ignore it. Now I'm done, so don't feel snubbed if you respond and get nothing back from me.

And that's the point, as I've heard it, with circle walking, or at least one of the points, is that you get to a point where you're walking the circle holding a static posture, and feel as though you're standing still, and it's the room that's moving. You're a center of stillness, not moving at all. For some, like me, knowing how to get into that feeling while moving, comes from really knowing how the posture feels when I'm standing still.

Yep

It does. I credit ZZ with very quickly lowering my center of gravity and allowing me to root. Not sure how long it would have taken me to get that, without ZZ. Some people are naturally rooted and have a low center of gravity. Not me. It's changed everything from how I stand, walk, feel inside my body in general. Certainly can't be a bad thing for my bagua.

I guess I don't really have a system... I use Master Lam's "The Way of Energy" book for my zhan zhuang and 8 strands brocade. I get most of my spiritual enlightenment ideas from Ram Dass' "Be Here Now". I'm finally getting through to the practice part of Dr. Yang's "Embryonic Breathing" Qigong book.

Yep, no enlightenment for you.

The better I eat, the better I feel, and the more I crave actual good food. When I ate whatever I wanted, I could eat whatever I wanted. Now if I eat crap, that's exactly what I feel like. I guess I've sensitized myself. But I like what I've seen in other threads relating to this concept...at first along your path, when you really start making headway, you're overly sensitive to anything "bad". It all affects you very negatively. At some point when you've progressed further, you can more or less put what you want in your body and feel ok. It's enough for me to know I'm on my way, even if I'm not very far.

Yeah sorry I cut the post out from under you. Nothing in there I don't wish for the public to see, I just feel like being done. I'm glad you pulled out what you did, as it was really the only part worth keeping.

Great. In the end, most of us don't know enough to know. Myself especially. I'm endlessly facinated with and impressed/awed by the soft martial arts. But I'm no fighter. Never have been and never will be, short of some apocolyptic change of events. So I'll never really know. And I really like you all. So I'm done.

Fair enough. And you know this because..?

Aah forget it.

Funny how it basically says a large part of the Italian diet is in no way compatible with a TCM lifestyle. Tomatoes and grains = do not mix!! Very interesting though as I've found that in the last couple years, eating pasta & tomato sauce makes me feel like crap. I used to eat pasta at least 3 nights a week, for years. Either I've become more sensitive, or I just didn't realize what it was to feel good until the last couple years. Thanks for the link

I completely understand the idea that all this leaning of Asian forms, doing flashy stuff, being really flexible and able to jump around and do high kicks, is not in any way, necessarily, related to actual fighting skill. And a lot of what kids are taught, in the US anyways, as far as martial arts, is more like dance or ballet with a little punching and grunting thrown in. But to read one of the first posts on page one about preffering to take on a bagua or taiji fighter before a western boxer...I understand if you haven't had exposure to real bagua or taiji fighters. But MAN would you regret that decision, if you ever had to make it, and fought a bad a** bagua guy. We aren't talking about a bunch of hard punches to the face and body like a western fight. We're talking snapped limbs, being more or less pile-drived, thrown up in the air, slammed down head first, internal damage. A Chinese "street fighter" in the bagua style is nothing like some kid you see doing a fancy form.

What exactly are you asking for? Proof that somebody can shoot invisible qi balls at you from 10 feet away, or that they can make you drop by manipulating your qi without even touching you? Or proof that someone who is well trained in internal arts will have an advantage over a purely external fighter? Just trying to figure out if you're stuck on internal arts as being a mythical, magical thing, or if you understand what's really meant by internal.

Is that the one at the base of the mtn, right near the other "5 star" hotel (Jianguo Hotel)? Where you check in and can catch a bus? I know there was a HUGE new building going in there, that I thought was going to be a new school but I'm not sure...

Ah, I never made it to the five dragon temple. There are schools all over those mountains, the most popular of which is actually in the town down at the bottom of the mountain, and its swarming with westerners (not that that makes it a bad place). I really enjoyed wudang, but like everywhere worth going in china, it's been turned into an amusement park.

Well...this could be a totally legit system. But the way he's chosen to market it screams western capitalism. It's total manipulative marketing. "super secret!" "limited time!" "act fast!". "only 12 masters left in the world!" "and they're only in China!". "Raf's master in China!" In China In China In China!!!!!!!!!!!!! I get it! He's in China and we all know that's the only way you could really be for real. On top of that, Wudang is the new Shaolin. There are great masters there, but it's really become a tourist attraction and training ground for westerners studying kung fu. It's all the rage, currently. Which makes me even more suspicious about this marketing. It's got all the hallmarks of "ancient Chinese secret" stuff that's been marketed towards westerners for decades. So...like I said, it could be a good system. I know nothing about it. The way he's chosen to present it just turns me off. But I think we, on this site and people like us, are a bit more descriminating and already have a lot of exposure to these concepts. If he's trying to reach the general population in the way that they're best reached...well, I guess I can't fault him for that.

I guess I never know when my teacher is mixing stuff so I don't know if my experience will help you...but in my bagua training, we do "single" and "double gravitational" exercises, which involve holding static standing postures. In single we hold them standing on one leg, double is on both feet. But I don't know if these exercises came specifically from bagua or if he's incorportated them into it because he thinks they're helpful. But a lot of the throws and other things where you're really required to have all your weight on one leg benefit a LOT from standing for extended periods of time, in that position, on one leg (or both legs). You become very solid and rooted in that position, and learn not to overextend or lose your balance. Just my experience.

Yeah we can only take than analogy so far... I may, in a year or so, be living in something about the same size as a very small yacht, for about a year, if that counts... And my favorite job ever was living in a fire lookout for a summer. Not very economically feasible, but people do make it work. They aren't staffing very many of them anymore, though.

I would be all over something like that...

Sinfest- Thankfully, yes. rainbowvien, I hear you.

If any of these "systems" really produce results, and there are enough people willing to put in the time, maybe the tao bums will have a giant community of masters in a couple decades... You'll be telling the beginners about the good old days when you didn't have all these great teachers...