Nelida

part of the ego thing is seeking or needing validation, from the other ego's ∞Nelida

this is turning into one hell of a thread maybe I should read up a bit on Sartre, eh but we have not spoken about making choices before, this topic is expanding so rapidly I think choosing not to choose is not an option....or....it is a futile attempt at passiveness or something, to try to weasel out of taking an decision, but I don't feel that makes me partial to Sartre, I used to read his stuff, but I was much darker then, I don't think it would fit me anymore. but, sorry, for asking again, how do you see the ego thing? do you mean a person has multiple ego's ? aren't these aspects of oneself that one can give preference, like being the child with your parents, the lover with your lover, the friend with your friend, the mother to your child? maybe I'm horribly mistaken here, but I see the ego as the shell that we created to show other people in society, bluntly put. the ego is IMHO, the character that you created to function in the socialization process....and not the real you.. ∞Nelida

yes Taomeow, good reference!! I have reread a lot of it too, recently, there is so much clarity there ∞Nelida

ok, I get what you're saying, but I don't think this is what is being said here, honestly, in the example, this person, who acts from his ego and personality, instead of from his essence, is 'not in the world, but of it' as opposed to being 'in the world, but not of it' IMO this doesn't mean you cannot add to the energy of a situation, it doesn't mean keeping/staying aloof from human concern, and it doesn't mean rationality is no part of this, as for judgment, I think one must be very careful in having judgment, i have been trying to suspend judgment, and if I succeed, I feel that I didn't add any part of myself, in the sense that there was no interference of me toward the person or happening or whatever thing that wasn't judged, and it feels....free, light, there was no unnecessary exchange of energy...you don't have to have a judgment or opinion of everything that crosses your path, I think. But maybe we have a misunderstanding about the ego ∞Nelida

lol, I have a problem with online gurus that sell kundalini too! I ran ahead and did assume a western type therapist, I apologize, and am happy that you specified, for dc too! dc9 pay attention, cosmic hug is on the way to you, sometimes everybody needs a little fuzzy feeling, right, or maybe I'm just feeling sisterly today the nasty part is though, that the real hard work is something only you yourself can do, but I promise you, things will get better. Don't beat yourself up about too many things, doesn't help ∞Nelida

woot, I'm with you Shanlung, ChiDragon really is a ********, but you could never make him believe that, the horse he sits on is so high, he simply is above humility and any martial morals, I think he trains alone because they got tired of him telling the master of the class he was wrong all the time, he doesn't even realize that nobody takes him serious anymore, I would love to learn more from your experience with taijiquan and it hurts my heart to read of your little friend in the past tense it's good to see you here ∞Nelida

well put Meroe if you didn't feel anything dc, this workshop that you went to, read this again...it really takes a while for energy to flow freely in your body, and it doesn't rely on how badly you want it... I never understand people saying, and they make me a little suspicious too , when saying that it could be a really really subtle feeling, it's true that it feels different from the familiar bodily sensations, but once you learn how to discern it, or...maybe I should say, the manner that it presents itself or the layer where it seems to manifest, it's really not subtle at all, what do the rest of you feel of people explaining this as subtle in this way, suspicious or not? ∞Nelida

don't give up! listen, sometimes life just leads you around some bends in the road that don't seem to go where you want to go, maybe they take you to some side road for a while, and you seem to be going in a completely different direction altogether, but this is also for the lessons that you can take out of it. It may not seem to you like it right now, but the direction you wanted to go, will manifest itself in one way or another for you, and you will find that out. I'm not that much older than you, I'm only 31, and while I knew the Source of everything when I was little, it was all lost to me for years, and I have been scared and angry and frustrated, I have been so scared and confused it chilled me so deep down, but I figured it all out, and I also figured out that no psychologist could help me with this, all these things only started to come together and shape into something new when I was maybe 25-26, and now everything is, I am so different that I can hardly believe it myself. Don't get me wrong, if you need help, get help (!) and no, sometimes things are still difficult for me too... so there...now you know way more of me than maybe you should but if it helps you in any way, it doesn't matter good luck to you, dc9, the world can be a crazy place, if you're sure of something in your heart, don't let anybody tell you it's nothing but do take well meant and sensible advice when you get some ) ∞Nelida

of course there are, good and bad professionals, unfortunately this doesn't seem to be an issue as it has become quite normal to prescribe medication that is mood altering, and very often these are addictive in the long run, people become dependent on them, and it seems to lie in the western pattern of medicine to prescribe pills for symptoms real easily instead of treating underlying causes ( this goes from your common cold to psychological disorders,) and I think in the case of add and adhd this is certainly the case. Beside that, I wasn't giving any advice, I was respectfully disagreeing with you, and I do think giving children, or in this case, a young adult, speed, amphetamines (!) to treat add is really symptomatic of how the system works, however much they might calm down, there must be another way, I'm sorry, I just have a problem with farmaceutical companies influence in these things because it makes them more money. I think dc would be a lot better off taking advice not to go for instant kundalini awakening then of not taking medication for add, but he doesn't seem to take either. But you're right, I'm no professional. ∞Nelida

lol, I do think that maybe you shouldn't be put off so quickly if you start reading something et-thoughts, there was one paragraph about ego or personality in there, and it didn't say you should eliminate it. You haven't read even one -fifth of the text, and now that I've read through it all, yes, there's a couple nice passages in there about what it means, it's a little wordy/long maybe, but it'll take you just 10 or 15 minutes. What do you mean by 'when it got to associate the ego to the world' ? this has nothing to do with reality being a dream or a holographic reality or any such thing. I copy/pasted a couple passages, maybe, if you're interested: "If a person believes himself to be the ego, the identifications, ideas and past experiences, then he is said to be "not in the world, but of it." He is not aware of who he really is, of his essence. This is difficult to understand unless we are aware of our own essence at least some of the time. [...] "Being in the world but not of it" means that you continue doing what you do, you continue to pursue your career as a physicist, a gardener, a mother and so on, but all the time you remember and realize that it is only a reflection of something else, that what you wish most deeply is to actualize a part of yourself. And the main effort and work of what you have chosen to do is directed toward understanding that certain part of yourself and actualizing it. If you live that way, it is true you are in the world, but your motivation is different; you are not of the world. your purpose is to find the precious pearl, your personal essence. If you're a physicist you could be awarded one prize after the other; if you're a lawyer you could become the state attorney. But you will still feel unfulfilled if you don't find the pearl. You'll still have to do more, try more, prove more and so on. You could spend your life striving for bigger and better results. [..] So the saying isn't "not of the world," it is "in the world but not of it." "In the world" means not meditating on some mountain, not living in a monastery. You're actually living the life of the world. Your life is an adventure, and whatever you are doing in the world is not an end in itself, but the process, a crucible for melting the gold from the ore." [...] Once you know yourself to be the personal essence, what you do doesn't matter much. You choose what will enlarge and enhance your real self. There can never be a sense of lasting fulfillment unless you have realized that essential part of yourself. Nothing else can take its place." Maybe I can find something more concise, lol, but yes, I do think I agree with this notion and the way I am in the world, but not of it ∞Nelida

it's a good thing to put this out there et-thoughts maybe I should answer the original post first, because I was really only thanking for the link to sufi tradition( or new testament?) as the origin of this phrase, I have always liked it, but its possibly not the thing I necessarily want from my practice, I posted this link as I was reading it myself too, I have not yet the inner understanding to speak of this with my own words, so maybe I threw something out there that was slightly off-topic and confusing in this case....maybe Clarity could chime in to enrich us too? I think my personal goal in my play and practice and dedication and intense love for what I do and still want to be and become, is the increasing and enhancing and expanding of my awareness and to attain a certain clarity, and, since we are connecting it here with 'this world' I do think this awareness can be expanded to go far beyond this world, not because it may be desirable to leave here or anything, but simply because existence IS much much larger than this earth... i'm not sure I agree about the ego though, and judgment, I think the ego is not the self, and I'm really not sure that we are forced to or will eventually always judge everything, I think judging the things we see around us constantly is in part what keeps us fixated to our created ego's, and is more a part of socialization than humanness... but I have yet to read more of this site too and think about what you posted, I will get back to you on this ∞Nelida

this was not my point et-thoughts I was just thanking for a source to a saying I have heard before, which I don't believe means what you say it does, and no, I don't seek a way out of anything there's really no need to I have not read all of this link, so can't vouch for its quality of content, Clarity, if you have a better one, please add http://www.ahalmaas.com/Extracts/in_world_not_of_it.htm ∞Nelida

you say your life is a trainwreck, dc, and that this is the reason that you are looking for orgasmic fantastic bliss, maybe its superfluous to mention, but feeling blissful while your life is still a trainwreck is not going to change the trainwreck, you know, your problems or difficulties in whatever area of your life are not going to go away simply by feeling blissful, if it seems that way you're burying your head in bliss until...the outside world forces a way in and please consider what I asked you about why you feel that 'this is the way you are and that's it' ADD or not, you are not a victim to your supposed character, which I believe is not your true self, in fact, if this is the way you feel, some things being impossible for you because of this, look at it the other way around, these are the key things for you to overcome to move ahead in your life, you can use them as an excuse not to do something, or as the challenge to overcome to do something, it's up to you, but you are still too young, life is just starting!! I partly agree with 宁, in that what you want, is not what you should be looking for here, but now that you're here, take this opportunity to learn from the teachings out there to grow your awareness of things! I disagree respectfully with the professional advice seeking, it may be good, I can't judge the entire situation, but going to a western shrink who will give you medicinal speed to keep your add or adhd in check is not what I would recommend. ∞Nelida

why do you think how you are now is so much set in stone? I used to be so different from how I am now, and I honestly believed these were my traits of character and circumstances that I got to be this way, but so many, if not all of these things are hardly part of me and my life anymore, and I believed I never would be able to change this, but somewhere down the road I realized that a lot of things had actually changed! I was much much more impatient ( well, I still am, sometimes, gotta say I wasn't disciplined, I used to think I was ambitious, only to realize in growing up more that I couldn't bring myself to work and study with the ambition I saw in fellow students, I was moody, short-fused, pretty pessimistic, I have been angry with the entire world, I didn't take responsibility for my actions... I could say more...but you get my point When I got up the courage to really start in another direction, and really figure out what my life meant to me and what I wanted to do, all that changed, not overnight, but it did, now that I have found my true true passion everything is so much easier and more blissful!! however, I'm working twice as hard, things are not easy in that sense, but it doesn't matter you don't need expensive teachers, really, and be sure to have good recommendations before you spend this kind of money on any of this, but truth is, everyone has expenses and stuff, so I get that they have to charge you for things. Do you do something like taiji or bagua? that's affordable in lesson fee, I think, and you can put in as much time as you like, for free If you can't believe you can do all this changing, I can believe it for you for a little while ∞Nelida

lol, yes I agree, brace yourself this may be a hell of a ride... I read a nice phrase,( I believe in another forum, but might have been here, ) 'spiritual materialism' this comes to mind here...not only in this case, but unfortunately I see this in many people on a certain path, people may have the best of intentions, but blind spots may be huge and unnoticed. ∞Nelida

I have always loved this saying, 'to be in the world, but not of it' I didn't know it was a sufi saying, thank you Clarity! ∞Nelida

lol, I mentioned martial morality because of your seeming complete lack of humility, which you seem to be familiar with as a concept after all and I think Shanlung may have been humoring you with this remark, but better to turn it around this way eh ∞Nelida

I wish all the best orgasmic bliss for you dc9, but reading your posts makes me a little sad for you, how do you reconcile constant bliss with this much desire? if ever you have read anything to inform yourself in your search for this, you must have seen something about the release of desire, about being without expectations, about perseverance, I don't have to add to all the heartfelt posts made before, but all of them were so true! I only hear you say want want want, orgasmic fantastic everlasting, now now now, or maybe even yesterday, materialist, impatient, I can't, I won't, somebody must give me..... this is all diametrically opposed to the thing you are looking for, how blissfull do you think you'd feel if just that were not so much a part of this? It's the way that's the beautiful and blissful thing, it's not a state to be arrived at and then it never leaves you. But everyone already told you that. Maybe you could check out parallelperception.com His teaching has a most direct quality, he is a very powerful man, but don't kid yourself, if you go to him with the attitude you seem to have now, he will shatter it without a second thought and will not make it easy on you, and that is putting it very mildly, but maybe this will be able to show you the humility you are looking for without being aware of it True heartfelt abandon already gives you so much bliss that working toward your orgasmic bliss, if you still want it, will be a delight! ∞Nelida

In my personal experience the most difficult yet most liberating has been the intense confrontation with these aspects of myself or my behaviour, and I think getting through them is one of the, if not the central key to spiritual growth, it is also where most people get stuck, either because it is too difficult or because there is a subconscious unwillingness to go there, but for me the most valuable and most confronting lesson was in realizing that I had to crawl through this shit as deep as it goes, and really look it straight in the eye. This can't be done all at once though, at least, I don't think so...it's like you go through cycles, and when you're in a certain cycle of growth you can deal with some things, but not all of them, I don't mean one aspect, like anger, but more in phases, like recognizing your own reactions and behaviour, then recognizing how they are triggered, or were triggered in the past, then recognizing what may have changed so their influence became smaller in your life, but then you may start to see how, if you're honest with yourself, these triggers have deeper layers that come from somewhere else, then you may start to recognize how these triggers still are in your life and you can view them with more detachment and you are not 'at their mercy' any longer, or maybe you find out that you are, and you realize it takes more.... every cycle that you finish, you end up in the same spot, only a little higher, see it as a spiral, and you pass the same place over and over, but ever more upward in the spiral, and the more turns you take in that spiral, the more you grow, in turn number 15 you are able to work with this in a completely different way that when you were in turn 2 or 3, and it is only then that this becomes possible, the option simply wasn't there before, so you have to go through it all, there's no skipping here.... Realize that things may take time to come to you, and just work through it all, it doesn't have to be a conscious effort all the time, and what may seem like falling back, into old frustrations or anxiety, always has a purpose, it may show you how things may have changed for you, sometimes I feel like I have learned nothing, back to square one, but in being in this 'old feeling' ( which can scare the crap out of me! ) I may realize that my perception of everything had changed much much more than I was conscious of, and I find myself able to observe what happens, or what happened way back when maybe, or I find I can deal with things in a manner that I couldn't have before. Try not to let it push you out of your flow, it will pass, if you let it come up as it does. Everything happens for you, not to you! I'm not sure a hard style martial art will help you with this. ∞Nelida

play= serious fun practice=dedication serious playful dedication ? ∞Nelida

Taomeow, impeccability yes!! Mythmaker said: "A good teacher is always learning. Is playing taiji for the joy of it. A good teacher is teaching you things you don't even know you are being taught " yep, so true!! 'remember, nothing is for nothing...everything I make you do has a purpose, even if you don't see it now." and people around me are starting to make wax on wax off jokes ah chenjiagou, hope to be able to go there soon ∞Nelida

Taomeow said: "Taiji is learned from the teacher's presence and touch -- as one (Western) source put it, "like a candle lit from a candle." Can't light a candle by telling it how to burn, you know..." I love that! My teacher is just like that, an utter delight to know as a person and learn from, I don't know anyone who is so obviously crazy joyous and passionate about the things he does, and he has so much fun in working with us, and beside that, he is the real deal, in terms of the depth of the training that he gives, he is a generous, freely giving person who I hope to keep learning from for a very long time ∞Nelida

Stosh said: "I dont want anyone messing around with my dreams or in my head" no worries, Stosh, it wasn't an invite although I don't think the personal space would be invaded in that way... thanks for the ziran link, I'll check it out later. ∞Nelida

welcome Shanlung, from idiot to bum then! lol Marblehead, you crack me up ∞Nelida